Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[butchersapron]

Oh it wasn't mad it was totally insane butchers. Asking you what you think! No answer to my question I note. Why's that then? Losing the plot? Eh?

That's not what you did is it co-op? Be honest. And i immediately answered your question. What one have i missed? Why i thought you were now off? I did that one already too. Because it's what you do. Now, all them things that you missed in my replies? An answer? Yeah...right.

 

[co-op]

That's not what you did is it co-op? Be honest. And i immediately answered your question. What one have i missed? Why i thought you were now off? I did that one already too. Because it's what you do. Now, all them things that you missed in my replies? An answer? Yeah...right.

Oh just winding you up a little ba you do get pompous when you get on one. Maybe get off it? Or you can just wind yourself in knots of treble negatives and start dry-humping the thread again.

Love the idea that you answered my question though - "I did that already too. Because that's what you do". Just pure bullshit really. I answered the question (I didn't) but I did because that's what you do. Fantastic.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Hang on, i should explain to you what social class means when you're a) using it to argue that the mass of UKIP voters are managerial
'professional despite it showing that 52% are, and b) how this doesn't relate to income at all.

Saying much? I've said the stereotype of the UKIP voter is wrong and here's why. What have you said?

52%, plus the other 11%, who we know aren't unskilled/semi skilled/never worked. So probably more the other end. So that's 63%, ie two thirds, ie the mass.

And I've said it's right and used your own stats to demonstrate this. You don't seem to be doing much more than parroting the, seemingly incorrect, conclusions of the report writers. Who are probably intellectual ponces who you'd be quick to denounce in any other situation, anyway. Can't you come up with your own analysis of the figures, to counteract mine, rather than relying on someone else's? I came into this discussion pretty much taking the piss and fully expecting to lose, but the further I go the further I think you're not really making a coherent argument.

 

[butchersapron]

Scrupulosity manifest is co-op. That's right. He even gave himself a little cap for that.

 

[butchersapron]

52%, plus the other 11%, who we know aren't unskilled/semi skilled/never worked. So probably more the other end. So that's 63%, ie two thirds, ie the mass.

And I've said it's right and used your own stats to demonstrate this. You don't seem to be doing much more than parroting the, seemingly incorrect, conclusions of the report writers. Who are probably intellectual ponces who you'd be quick to denounce in any other situation, anyway. Can't you come up with your own analysis of the figures, to counteract mine, rather than relying on someone else's? I came into this discussion pretty much taking the piss and fully expecting to lose, but the further I go the further I think you're not really making a coherent argument.

What analysis and what figures? You've destroyed your own claim. 52% of UKIP voters are professional/managerial - therefore that is who votes for them. It's childish in it's crudiosity. But no, you try to have it both ways, saying that saying 52% of people are something is not a very fair way of looking at things.

 

[butchersapron]

This:

I imagine that a lot of them are retired or close to retirement. Theyll have a liveable pension, and own their home. Theyll have been hit by the economy/cuts, but not crippled, for the most part. They'll live in safe tory seats, or perhaps one of those fucking weird places up north where there are tons of asians and tons of bigots

Does this stand up? The liveable pension, own their own home, tory seats jon?

 

[co-op]

Scrupulosity manifest is co-op. That's right. He even gave himself a little cap for that.

Anyone?


It's not important, I'm just curious..

 

[Jon-of-arc]

This:



Does this stand up? The liveable pension, own their own home, tory seats jon?

Fuck knows. You cut off the [/wild speclation] bit, and it's certainly not been counteracted by anything you posted.

 

[butchersapron]

Anyone?


It's not important, I'm just curious..

And a single substantive reply to my points, Not a one. Scrupulous!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I know UKIP supporters in my hometown very well, I also have met lots of self professed UKIP supporters in two other constituencies in different parts of the country.

In two of the three - their support comes overwhelmingly from working class and small business people who don't like the EU - they may be socially conservative on some or all of the current hotbutton liberal Vs conservative issues but they aren't always - 3 of the main UKIP activists in my hometown are current or former union reps, and their candidate in the last general election was a working class black woman (and in 2001 they fielded a former Socialist Labour Party candidate).

In the final of the 3 areas I have spoken to them at length about politics they have tended more to the retired well to do skilled working class/lower middle class little Englander type...

It is difficult to catagorise UKIP voters in my view just like it is BNP voters

 

[butchersapron]

Fuck knows. You cut off the [/wild speclation] bit, and it's certainly not been counteracted by anything you posted.

It has been, it's been taken apart.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

What analysis and what figures? You've destroyed your own claim. 52% of UKIP voters are professional/managerial - therefore that is who votes for them. It's childish in it's crudiosity. But no, you try to have it both ways, saying that saying 52% of people are something is not a very fair way of looking at things.

No, I specifically state that 52% is a majority, and very significant, (because that's totally the proportion of professional/managerial people in the uk, right?), then build on that by highlighting a further 11% who seem likely to be quite well off, and comparing this to the 12% semi skilled etc who are probably not so well off. I point out that the study you link to seems to be grouping these people into social classes.

You parrot a line about how these stats prove that ukip is predominantly working class, asserted by the studies authors. Read the study, study the stats, and come back to me when you are able to point me to the bit which actually backs this assertion up. I'm more than happy to have my political cock shown to be smaller than yours, because I really don't give a fuck. But right now, that isn't happening.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

It has been, it's been taken apart.

Where?

 

[butchersapron]

No, I specifically state that 52% is a majority, and very significant, (because that's totally the proportion of professional/managerial people in the uk, right?), then build on that by highlighting a further 11% who seem likely to be quite well off, and comparing this to the 12% semi skilled etc who are probably not so well off. I point out that the study you link to seems to be grouping these people into social classes.

You parrot a line about how these stats prove that ukip is predominantly working class, asserted by the studies authors. Read the study, study the stats, and come back to me when you are able to point me to the bit which actually backs this assertion up. I'm more than happy to have my political cock shown to be smaller than yours, because I really don't give a fuck. But right now, that isn't happening.

No you didn't. You might now. Where did you specifically state such a thing?

I haven't said any such thing and neither does the report. Pull your trousers up,

 

[goldenecitrone]

Anyone?


It's not important, I'm just curious..

The revolution will not be intelligible.

 

[butchersapron]

Where?

In the report that you are now suggesting should be alternatively the voice of god and not worth bothering with due to its extreme errors.

 

[stuff_it]

Dunno. My survey team are being rather tardy.

I'd speculate that the one common factor is age. Older people.

I think we can probably fairly easily group them by newspaper brand as well.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I think we can probably fairly easily group them by newspaper brand as well.

Go on then

 

[Jon-of-arc]

No you didn't. You might now. Where did you specifically state such a thing?

I haven't said any such thing and neither does the report. Pull your trousers up,

Jesus, are you even reading any of my posts? I've been pretty consistent on this since I worked out how to read he report toward the end of page one.

And yes you have, at the start of page two.

Who's got the real butchers, and what have they done to him? Ffs.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

In the report that you are now suggesting should be alternatively the voice of god and not worth bothering with due to its extreme errors.

I'm discussing the evidence you've provided. I've not dismissed it, although have stated my surprise that you put so much stock in it.

 

[butchersapron]

Jesus, are you even reading any of my posts? I've been pretty consistent on this since I worked out how to read he report toward the end of page one.

And yes you have, at the start of page two.

Who's got the real butchers, and what have they done to him? Ffs.

So you agree that you state that 52% is a pretty significant majority? But it's not - is it? The you proceed to attack this number.

No i didn't. Quote me - i didn't and wouldn't because i know that it's not true.

 

[butchersapron]

I'm discussing the evidence you've provided. I've not dismissed it, although have stated my surprise that you put so much stock in it.

And alternately using it then attacking it.

Oh look co-op went, like i said,

 

[Jon-of-arc]

So you agree that you state that 52% is a pretty significant majority? But it's not - is it? The you proceed to attack this number.

No i didn't. Quote me - i didn't and wouldn't because i know that it's not true.

I don't think I bunched every single member into a whole, at any point. I have no doubt that ukip has voters under 25 in fucking Brighton or something. However, the typical ukip voter is, as per the majority, in the demographic I described. 52% is certainly a significant majority if it fits into he petty narrow demographic I described.

Looking back, I perhaps read the quote you took from the reports website. It basically agrees with me; ukip voters are fat Tory bastards, then says they have a significant working class element. So what? Still mostly fat Tory bastards. The lazy assumption stands up.

 

[butchersapron]

Who said that you needed to? No they're not. You can't read.

Perhaps - perhaps what? Misread it? Read it right? What did you perhaps do jon?

And no it doesn't, it screams in your face that your lazy idiocies are just that.

 

[butchersapron]

What sort of 'perhaps' is required to argue that i said that UKIP have only working class voters - or that there is no overlap between tory and UKIP voters?

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Who said that you needed to? No they're not. You can't read.

Perhaps - perhaps what? Misread it? Read it right? What did you perhaps do jon?

And no it doesn't, it screams in your face that your lazy idiocies are just that.

Ukip support is concentrated amongst Middle aged financially insecure = penny pinching, management/professional, older male daily mail readers. Or fat Tory bastards.

With the rest being made up of the working class. Well where he fuck else are they going to come from?

 

[butchersapron]

Ukip support is concentrated amongst Middle aged financially insecure = penny pinching, management/professional, older male daily mail readers. Or fat Tory bastards.

With the rest being made up of the working class. Well where he fuck else are they going to come from?

Apart from it not saying that.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

What sort of 'perhaps' is required to argue that i said that UKIP have only working class voters - or that there is no overlap between tory and UKIP voters?

Where did I claim you said ukip only have working class voters?

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Apart from it not saying that.

What does it say, then?

 

[butchersapron]

Where did I claim you said ukip only have working class voters?

[QUOTE-jon]You parrot a line about how these stats prove that ukip is predominantly working class, asserted by the studies authors. [/QUOTE]

Now, that's a) not solely w/c i agree but b) not what i claimed at all. So wtf are you on about?