Ukip - why are they gaining support?
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youngian
Well-Known Member
crossed with David OwenHe reminds me of Terry Tibs
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Note, it's not even a meal that the term was used for, but a person. Evasion one by the racist Farage.
Second, it's not been confirmed if the lady in question was Claire Khaw, but the description of her politics indicates it might be. Would be a story in itself if the press google searched images for her.
Third, the invocation of class to mitigate racism (rember, used about a person, not a meal) is a curious one, I wonder if NF might be persuaded to share his wisdom in this parish.
Second, it's not been confirmed if the lady in question was Claire Khaw, but the description of her politics indicates it might be. Would be a story in itself if the press google searched images for her.
Third, the invocation of class to mitigate racism (rember, used about a person, not a meal) is a curious one, I wonder if NF might be persuaded to share his wisdom in this parish.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You really are disgusting.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Butchers, leaving aside vapid personal abuse, do you have an opinion on the main issue here?
A simple question : Farage has twisted an incident (using a false comparator of a term used for a meal when it was applied to a person) and attempted to say that if an adult politician uses the term then, well, it might be ok to do so given the background of the person.
Is it an acceptable defence in your opinion? Yes, no or a qualified maybe will do for this one.
What disgusts me is that some people use "working class" not as a descriptor of place in the capital/labour relations, but in an anti working class way in that it implicitly excludes quite a lot of members of the class i.e non pink & British people.
I doubt NF was thinking of Chinese working class people in his typically intelligence-insulting blag, but then we know he's a racist, and he can hardly cite working class credentials for that.
Farage is trying to use class in a racist way, and as an excuse for racism. It's fucking rancid.
A simple question : Farage has twisted an incident (using a false comparator of a term used for a meal when it was applied to a person) and attempted to say that if an adult politician uses the term then, well, it might be ok to do so given the background of the person.
Is it an acceptable defence in your opinion? Yes, no or a qualified maybe will do for this one.
What disgusts me is that some people use "working class" not as a descriptor of place in the capital/labour relations, but in an anti working class way in that it implicitly excludes quite a lot of members of the class i.e non pink & British people.
I doubt NF was thinking of Chinese working class people in his typically intelligence-insulting blag, but then we know he's a racist, and he can hardly cite working class credentials for that.
Farage is trying to use class in a racist way, and as an excuse for racism. It's fucking rancid.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Get stuffed. Call me a racist (and anyone else here who has offered criticism of your crude social prejudices) then ask me that shit above. Disgusting.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
I didn't call you a racist, I wouldn't because I've never had cause to think you are a racist.
Now that's clear:
Farage has twisted an incident (using a false comparator of a term used for a meal when it was applied to a person) and attempted to say that if an adult politician uses the term then, well, it might be ok to do so given their background.
Is it an acceptable defence in your opinion? Yes, no or a qualified maybe will do.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You can get stuffed after your third point in your first post today. You know damn well what sort of smear you were implying. And now you've not even got the decency to back it up. So you can whistle. A little like you did in that third point.
You really are a disgrace. And a long winded waffling one at that.
You really are a disgrace. And a long winded waffling one at that.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Cant or won't answer a simple question then. And back to your preferred territory of sneering personal abuse.
the "sort of smear" you may have in mind is that some people can seem softer on aspects of racist attitudes deemed to be from a working class source (ETA: this is not "calling you a racist", and to think it is is either paranoia or ludicrous hype) . A lot of racists do hide behind class though. Yet, there is nothing working class about racism. In fact it's anti working class, so there's no need to mitigate racism on that basis, in the way that the middle/upper class racist Farage has attempted.
I am sometimes longer winded to fully qualify statements in advance defence of pedants looking for any excuse to pick holes.
the "sort of smear" you may have in mind is that some people can seem softer on aspects of racist attitudes deemed to be from a working class source (ETA: this is not "calling you a racist", and to think it is is either paranoia or ludicrous hype) . A lot of racists do hide behind class though. Yet, there is nothing working class about racism. In fact it's anti working class, so there's no need to mitigate racism on that basis, in the way that the middle/upper class racist Farage has attempted.
I am sometimes longer winded to fully qualify statements in advance defence of pedants looking for any excuse to pick holes.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Taffboy translator now on: of course it's not for me to say that all those people who disagreed with me on the edl, on the far right and on UKIP are racists in the manner i claim farage is above. But if you read my post i think questions need to be answered.
Translator off. None of these people - from those who've simply laughed at his cretiginous views on the above, to those who have politically challenged the same over the last 10 years have ever argued that people using racist terms are ok if used by w/c people. That some forms of racism of acceptable by anyone ever in fact. This is why it's a smear - and a really serious one. An offence far more serious than calling someone disgusting or telling them to get stuffed in response to what amounts to - behind all the mealy mouthed crap above - is calling me and pretty much every other poster in the politics forum racists.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Taffboy translator now on: of course it's not for me to say that all those people who disagreed with me on the edl, on the far right and on UKIP are racists in the manner i claim farage is above. But if you read my post i think questions need to be answered.
That's an incorrect translation. I don't think those people are racist. I never did. It's an utterly false and groundless accusation, and far from the first of it's kind from you. It's fine to guess what people think and why, but another thing to act as if your guesses are categorically true.
If I thought some people were soft on racism and I was wrong, I apologise for that. I aint going to trawl through the archives to micro analysse every last post. It still would in no way imply they are racist, still less that "pretty much every poster here" is racist. You are being beyond absurd with that point.
I'm glad you have been clear in describing NF's views as "cretiginous". I think they are worse still, they are offenseive to the working class, and racist.
That's an incorrect translation. I don't think those people are racist. I never did. It's an utterly false and groundless accusation, and far from the first of it's kind from you. It's fine to guess what people think and why, but another thing to act as if your guesses are categorically true.
If I thought some people were soft on racism and I was wrong, I apologise for that. I aint going to trawl through the archives to micro analysse every last post. It still would in no way imply they are racist, still less that "pretty much every poster here" is racist. You are being beyond absurd with that point.
I'm glad you have been clear in describing NF's views as "cretiginous". I think they are worse still, they are offenseive to the working class, and racist.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I called your views cretiginous. I think they are worse still, they are offensive to the working class.
Now i need a bath.
Now i need a bath.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Meanwhile...some good news from the "dump" of Cronx for Winston watchers...NF has backed his 2015 candidature for Cro. North.
Yes, despite various motions of no confidence in the party's "commonwealth spokesman", McKenzie will be able to re-create that calypso carnival atmosphere in May.
Yes, despite various motions of no confidence in the party's "commonwealth spokesman", McKenzie will be able to re-create that calypso carnival atmosphere in May.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
**
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
I seem to have scanned a post by one frothy bully rather too quickly. I naively thought Butchers might have passed up yet another chance to indulge false statements and personal insults against U75 posters in favour of crititicising the racist and anti working class leader of the party that this thread is actually about.
Anyhow, As discussed previously, here's an article about the possible identity of the lady in question:
https://aliberallife.wordpress.com/2014/12/19/ukip-has-nigel-farage-sat-down-with-claire-khaw/
Anyhow, As discussed previously, here's an article about the possible identity of the lady in question:
https://aliberallife.wordpress.com/2014/12/19/ukip-has-nigel-farage-sat-down-with-claire-khaw/
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
SImple question, ba. Did you or did you not post on here that you hoped people would vote UKIP?
If you did, what the fucking fuck were you thinking of, and who the fucking fuck do you think you are berating anyone on this subject?
If you did, what the fucking fuck were you thinking of, and who the fucking fuck do you think you are berating anyone on this subject?
Jean-Luc
Well-Known Member
There were three local by-elections in Oxford last month:
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/PageRender/decCD/Election_results_occw.htm
These results reveal a curiosity: when standing in an election with a UKIP candidate TUSC did badly (2%) but when there's no UKIP candidate they did considerably better (6%). UKIP got over 13% in the two they contested. This would seem to be a case of "Protest Voters of Britain, Unite!", but can it really be the case that nearly half the UKIP voters in an area like this would vote TUSC when there's no UKIP candidate standing? it would seem to confirm the theory that UKIP is attracting voters from the traditional working class (I used to think they were an external fraction of the Tory party). Or is it a case of "Protest Voters of Britain, Unite!" ? These wards cover council estates in the south of Oxford, including Blackbird Leys, the scene of riots in the early 90s and which once elected IWCA councillors. They are Labour strongholds but in these elections with UKIP coming second, even if a long way behind. Which suggests that even if UKIP can come second in places like this they are no real threat to Labour.
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/PageRender/decCD/Election_results_occw.htm
These results reveal a curiosity: when standing in an election with a UKIP candidate TUSC did badly (2%) but when there's no UKIP candidate they did considerably better (6%). UKIP got over 13% in the two they contested. This would seem to be a case of "Protest Voters of Britain, Unite!", but can it really be the case that nearly half the UKIP voters in an area like this would vote TUSC when there's no UKIP candidate standing? it would seem to confirm the theory that UKIP is attracting voters from the traditional working class (I used to think they were an external fraction of the Tory party). Or is it a case of "Protest Voters of Britain, Unite!" ? These wards cover council estates in the south of Oxford, including Blackbird Leys, the scene of riots in the early 90s and which once elected IWCA councillors. They are Labour strongholds but in these elections with UKIP coming second, even if a long way behind. Which suggests that even if UKIP can come second in places like this they are no real threat to Labour.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I'm not speaking for anybody else...but for my 2pworth...any pleasure taken from the rise of UKIP has been predicated on the basis of an electoral rift in the right-capital vote.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is what i've argued - and argued for years. And this, allied with me pointing out the dangers that UKIP posed in todays conditions years and years ago before the current popularity, then correctly predicting not just their growth, but the exact social areas in which they would grow (when many others were still going on about golf clubs and blazers), based on careful monitoring of their activity and reading of actual research and analysis of wider social conditions and generally taking them and the social conditions that have given rise to their support seriously is why you should listen to what i have to say on UKIP.
Or alternatively people could listen to late night vicarism that declares that there has been no growth in UKIP support at all and that being anti-eu it itself a vote for war and racism.
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taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
All accurate, I'm sure, and collectively quite an indictment...but...look at that graph above...over the past year the party has seen polling rise from about 12 to 16%, 'won' a national election and secured 2 MPs.
Do you think that blogs, like the one you've linked to, are the way to address the needs and concerns of those saying they support UKIP?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yes, was just going to comment on the juxtaposition of that graph and that blog. Then i looked at the blog - opening comments:
Must take some effort to remember facebook gaffes rather than a substantially enhanced national profile with serious inroads finally made into w/c and labour sections of the country and electorate, the election of two MPs, very close run parliamentary by-elections, the cornering of the protest vote across almost all parts of the country, massive rise in membership,the conitued rise in polling figures etc
Must take some effort to remember facebook gaffes rather than a substantially enhanced national profile with serious inroads finally made into w/c and labour sections of the country and electorate, the election of two MPs, very close run parliamentary by-elections, the cornering of the protest vote across almost all parts of the country, massive rise in membership,the conitued rise in polling figures etc
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
He doesn't think they need addressing at all - in fact to do so, even to suggest it would a sensible thing to do is equivalent to complicity with fascism. That's why he produced this remember?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
He doesn't think they need addressing at all - in fact to do so, even to suggest it would a sensible thing to do is equivalent to complicity with fascism. That's why he produced this remember?
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
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