Ukip - why are they gaining support?
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I'm willing to believe it was rammout in december on a friday drive time, without needing photo evidence
Just not that immigrants are really to blame
Just not that immigrants are really to blame
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
A guy at work always used to blame the traffic jams on the M62 on immigrants, exactly the same 'this country's too crowded' line. He pissed off to Australia about five years ago, probably still spouting the same crap without any awareness of the hypocrisy in his new situation.
bemused
Well-Known Member
UKIP has just become one of those long line of acceptable safe protest votes.
They have zero chance of getting in so people vote for them.
The problem is the three major parties confuse what people are pissed off about in politics. It's less about johnny foreigner and more about the absolute lack of any actual representation.
I remember when if you have a problem with you local police, schools, roads, planning or environment you use to be able to visit your local councillor safe in the knowledge that they knew if a few hundred people locally became cheesed off with the issue they'd vote them out next time around. That's not to say they actually fixed anything but there was actual engagement with local politics. Now they have so little power I have to wonder why they just don't scrap them.
I'd be surprised if the majority of people who vote for UKIP think Nigel can make the buses run on time, or indeed would like to see him power. Most just detest the other three parties so much they are happy to kick them in the balls.
They have zero chance of getting in so people vote for them.
The problem is the three major parties confuse what people are pissed off about in politics. It's less about johnny foreigner and more about the absolute lack of any actual representation.
I remember when if you have a problem with you local police, schools, roads, planning or environment you use to be able to visit your local councillor safe in the knowledge that they knew if a few hundred people locally became cheesed off with the issue they'd vote them out next time around. That's not to say they actually fixed anything but there was actual engagement with local politics. Now they have so little power I have to wonder why they just don't scrap them.
I'd be surprised if the majority of people who vote for UKIP think Nigel can make the buses run on time, or indeed would like to see him power. Most just detest the other three parties so much they are happy to kick them in the balls.
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bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Acceptable?
But yes, you have a point. There are clearly people who find it acceptable. Any point trying to engage with them? Are there even any points of contact?
bemused
Well-Known Member
Acceptable?
But yes, you have a point. There are clearly people who find it acceptable. Any point trying to engage with them? Are there even any points of contact?
Isn't that the challenge, if the three major parties are so awful what are you going to talk them into?
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
What are you going to talk to them about? As this is urban, assuming you come from the left and probably despair of the labour party already, what is the point of contact with nulab let alone tories or lib dems, let alone ukippers? I don't have an answer and am despairing but think there needs to be some kind of engagement if we are ever going to get anywhere without violence.
ETA when I say 'point of contact' I mean nexus rather than purpose. But still.
ETA when I say 'point of contact' I mean nexus rather than purpose. But still.
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I used to work with a bloke who emigrated to Australia on the basis that there had been a massive shift in the balance of power and culture in England and that new arrivals were pushing the native people out to the fringes.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
racists love australia 
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I used to work with a bloke who emigrated to Australia on the basis that there had been a massive shift in the balance of power and culture in England and that new arrivals were pushing the native people out to the fringes.
I read a thread on scumfront years ago with a load of British expats saying that they had moved to Spain to get away from the immigrants
bemused
Well-Known Member
I don't really see UKIPs position on immigration that much different than Labours or the Tories. The only real difference is that the Red and Blue parties have been banging on about restrictions on people like Filipino health care workers coming here to staff old peoples homes whilst pretending that EU migration doesn't really count. The only difference seems to be UKIP wants everyone under the same rules.
I don't know enough about the benefits and disadvantages of migration to know if it's a huge benefit or a massive burden - and I don't really care the London melting pot is pretty cool and fine by me.
I'm just commenting on the disingenuous nature of the immigration debate.
I don't know enough about the benefits and disadvantages of migration to know if it's a huge benefit or a massive burden - and I don't really care the London melting pot is pretty cool and fine by me.
I'm just commenting on the disingenuous nature of the immigration debate.
It's very different: UKIP want control of immigration from within the EU; the Tories and Labour accept EU immigration as part of being in Europe.
bemused
Well-Known Member
I get that, but how is it different? Both agree on the concept of migration controls - it's just that the Tories and Labour seem to think that half a billion people from one part of the World shouldn't be counted.
It's just scope, there isn't much 'very' in the difference.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
UKIP general sec suspended cos of unspecified shanigans. no info other than
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ral-secretary-candidate-selection-allegations
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ral-secretary-candidate-selection-allegations
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
The kipborg will be indulging all the pompous politico speak they can muster to try and smooth this one over. You know - the sort of stuff that they reject in favour of "plain speaking".
Bunch of pricks.
Bunch of pricks.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Spam - reported as such
Not funny. Reported as such to the comedy council
Not funny. Reported as such to the comedy council
youngian
Well-Known Member
That's true they will be under a system of 'sensible managed migration'. Which basically means a farmer has to get some paperwork stamped before the migrants prevent his food from rotting. The main difference under UKIP is that he will be able to ship over Bangladeshis on £1 an hour instead of using EU labour on minimum wage. Immigration has been a fortunate bandwagon that UKIP has been able to exploit but its essentially a one issue party obsessed with the EU and all its evil works. It is an irony that its core voters have not yet been bright enough to work out that under UKIP they're more likely to see more darkies and Muzzies down their High Street and less white European Christians from Central Europe.
But did any far right populist party come to power because their voters had a deep ideological commitment to the philopsphy and had thought really hard about the consequences of their policies?
UKIP's appeal is visceral and Farage is yet to have a Greg Stillson moment, a figure he worryingly resembles.
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taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
A little insight into some UKIP bullying antics against a small time critic
http://ukipshenanigans.wordpress.com/
http://ukipshenanigans.wordpress.com/
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Much funnier.
bemused
Well-Known Member
Yeah but now you have the Labour Party no less saying they'll refuse to pay EU migrates benefits if they haven't had a job over here - pretty much giving rogue employers a huge stick to treat them like shit.
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's your second worst yet. I feel like i'm covered in shit just by reading it. You clueless cunt.
youngian
Well-Known Member
You can't turn up from Bulgaria and sign on anyway its a phantom solution to a phantom problem. Depressing though it is that Labour are even playing this game. If they were serious about confronting the problem of wage depression in the low skilled labour market they should look at abolishing Tory trade union restrictions that make collective bargaining and industry wide wage norms so difficult to fight for.
Fingers
From Tuscany SE22
This is what happened when one of my mates wrote a letter to his local newspaper about UKIP last week.
http://ukipshenanigans.wordpress.com/
http://ukipshenanigans.wordpress.com/
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I guess not eh Fingers ?
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frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Real libertarians don’t have a problem with migration and probably wouldn’t want to double prison spaces.
Yes they would. Assuming we're talking of the ayn rand variety...
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Ayn Rand was a migrant.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think you've lost the plot on this subject. This is a party one of whose two MPs openly spoke of 'sending them back', and you are sickened by a lampoon of such people as narrow-minded racists?
It might hit a few bum notes, but you know what I felt covered in shit by? You, hoping people would vote UKIP before a recent election. You've no business calling anyone a clueless cunt when it comes to this.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Ah the liberal's liberal who is really a hardcore anarchist who thinks being anti-eu is a VOTE FOR WAR!!!! and also you hate black people and all that because i know some damn well black people and they don't vote UKIP.
If you can source that quote about 'sending them back' btw you'd be doing a lot of journos and other liberals a big favour. Can you?
Ans yes, i'm sickened by years on year of taffboys anti- w/c prejudices dressed up as politics. You're not because you're constructed out of the same prejudices and can't actually see them. Note the way that you move from MPs to voters or supporters above. Pure uncomprehending dishonesty. Tonight's the night though, so lets have it again. It'll go the same way last may. Remember?
How many MP's are members of parties who have 'sent them back' this parliament btq - and how many last parliament? Give me the exact number please. How many of them took part in and normalised racist behaviours and discourses? And how many parties of these will be urging people to vote for as they are legit parties against illegitimate parties this coming may? Vote for the powerful racists not the weak racists.
Clueless, you can't even think beyond your own fucking smell and sense of self-smugness. And you cheat at uno.
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