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Ukip - why are they gaining support?

Wilf said:
On the face of it it's a bit risky the tories taking somebody who has just been reported to the police for financial irregularities. Same time dodgy expenses and financial irregularities are just about the default setting for elected ukip politicians.
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Not really something that seems to bother tories, really. Sounds like a fairly inept attempt at damage limitation by the 'kippers anyhow.
 
brogdale said:
Not really something that seems to bother tories, really. Sounds like a fairly inept attempt at damage limitation by the 'kippers anyhow.
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Oh yeah, sure, I agree the tories wouldn't have any moral qualms, it just looked like something that could have theoretically embarrassed them later if there was anything to it. As you say though, damage limitation and the implication is the tories know that's all it is.
 


A Kipper gives a philosophical insight into the nature of truth
Yes, because you can prove anything with facts. Anything at all. Facts, numbers, statistics. Any argument, no matter how stupid can be proven using facts. O'Brien knows this so he goes well off course to prove his frivolous nonsense. It's the mentality of loonies like that who have destroyed the country.
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Surely he's taking the rise
 
Well, there was a woman on BBC news earlier about how Swiss banks governed by EU rules they had no day on. Which is true but missed that EU just elaborates on Basel accords, and there is a clue in the name as to where they are set. This other fact wasn't mentioned.
 
Yes they talk out of their arse, most media stories about barmy Brussels directives on bananas or whatever are common trading standards drawn up at the WTO so everyone knows what they're buying and selling in an international market.
 
If we had a referendum, it would be useful to know how much legislation is gatt/un/wto, how much EU and what national. None of the players seems interested in telling us
 
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gosub said:
If we had a referendum, it would be useful how much legislation is gatt/un/wto, how much EU and what national. None of the players seems interested in telling us
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That's a lot of referendums. Unless you're directly effected no one is interested in knowing apart from the swivel eyed loons who don't know what they're talking about.
 
No, one referendum, but are we represented on the global bodies by EU or UK and what impact that would have
 
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gosub said:
If we had a referendum, it would be useful to know how much legislation is gatt/un/wto, how much EU and what national. None of the players seems interested in telling us
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That's because it's complicated. I suspect most politicians don't know the answer. That's why they continue to employ diplomats.

(In my experience) the UK negotiates at UN bodies as part of an EU delegation. There are delegation meetings during negotiations to settle a common line - though the EU is not itself a member of the UN body (or of the WTO).

Then, usually, the results of the UN agreement are put out as an EU Directive, the precise form of which is negotiated between the governments of the member states in the Council of Europe (and debated in the EU Parliament).

The member states pass laws implementing the Directive. They can thus disclaim responsibility.




The short answer is that the anti-EU forces like what the WTO does. So they shut up about it.

Those few who think this far would like the UK to distance itself from the rather mild efforts of other EU states to moderate the fundamentalist-free-market proposals coming out of (largely) the US.
 
laptop said:
That's because it's complicated. I suspect most politicians don't know the answer. That's why they continue to employ diplomats.

(In my experience) the UK negotiates at UN bodies as part of an EU delegation. There are delegation meetings during negotiations to settle a common line - though the EU is not itself a member of the UN body (or of the WTO).

Then, usually, the results of the UN agreement are put out as an EU Directive, the precise form of which is negotiated between the governments of the member states in the Council of Europe (and debated in the EU Parliament).

The member states pass laws implementing the Directive. They can thus disclaim responsibility.




The short answer is that the anti-EU forces like what the WTO does. So they shut up about it.

Those few who think this far would like the UK to distance itself from the rather mild efforts of other EU states to moderate the fundamentalist-free-market proposals coming out of (largely) the US.
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Had similar experiences,in my job the whole dance through JAR before the EU was recognised as a state by the UN for example when EASA became viable without breaching the UN 1944 Chicago convention.

But that is the ground the referendum should be on, (its the pro EU that bang on about bananas) but we'd still have to have legislation about them because of WTO - how free would we be without the middle man and is our voice amplified or lost in the crowd -should be central. Instead we get people blaming people for things when blame might be elsewhere and people talking up their responsibility when their hands are tied.

or did. Nobody is actually talking about the EU anymore, just finding EUropean people(s) to rage against
 
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Wilf said:
Blimey, though in darts parlance that's good 'clustering', gets most of the right wing looncandle parties over his 'career'.
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i think there's one bloke who made it through 5 parties as an MP in the 1930s. I've got one from a bit earlier that i've looked at who did Liberal actvist, to lib unionist mp, to tory mp, to independent labour candidate, to labour activist. but i think a lot of that was about who wasn't fucking him off for being a foreign born jew (or a lying twat) at the time.
 
toggle said:
i think there's one bloke who made it through 5 parties as an MP in the 1930s. I've got one from a bit earlier that i've looked at who did Liberal actvist, to lib unionist mp, to tory mp, to independent labour candidate, to labour activist. but i think a lot of that was about who wasn't fucking him off for being a foreign born jew (or a lying twat) at the time.
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Oswald Mosely had something like 5 - tory, lab and, I think, independent labour (plus New Party and Brit Union of Fascists).

Edit, ah, nearly: tory > ind > lab > new party > buf

Edit2: actually, he was only an MP for the first 4 of those.
 
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Wilf said:
Galloway being a little coy there as to what the actual issue was.
Anyway, pretty good going, an MEP for 2 parties after being a council candidate for a 3rd, within 21 months. What a cunt.
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Even more - he used to be labour too.

Amjad Bashir denies that he has ever had anything to do with the Respect party but an application form he filled in and is still held by the party proves that isn’t the case. The new Conservative MEP gives his date of birth on the form as September 17, 1952. But he also claims on the form that in the 1970s and 1980s he was a Labour party member and helped the then Bradford West MP Marsha Singh (now deceased). He also claims to have been heavily involved, and led a membership drive in Bradford, for Imran Khan’s Pakistan party the PTI (Party of Justice).
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