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Ukip - why are they gaining support?

taffboy gwyrdd said:
More cheerleading and bon homie for UKIP from Britain First.

Why are UKIP so appealing to fascists? It's very puzzling.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/29/britain-first-ukip_n_6066498.html
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It's not puzzling at all, if you bother to actually think about it. All of the hard-right formations see the possibility of UKIP success as also a possible route to success in electoral politics for themselves, whether through entryism in UKIP, or taking the direct road of trying to get themselves elected. They make the same mistake as you do - they assume fascism on UKIP's part while totally missing the fact that UKIP's economic logic is inimical to fascism.
 
ViolentPanda said:
It's not puzzling at all, if you bother to actually think about it. All of the hard-right formations see the possibility of UKIP success as also a possible route to success in electoral politics for themselves, whether through entryism in UKIP, or taking the direct road of trying to get themselves elected. They make the same mistake as you do - they assume fascism on UKIP's part while totally missing the fact that UKIP's economic logic is inimical to fascism.
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You ever considered doing a political blog V/P?
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
It was the hitler youth I was saying perhaps should have been listened to, sarcastically obviously.

Imagine it, Communists and others slagging off Hitler as a genocidal lunatic. "oh no, you mustn't talk about that, we must address the concerns of the petite bourgeoise and the upper proletarian sections.

Anyway, now our leaders are listening to what the spy-on-murdered-kids media says are the concerns in modern britain, and people in the med are drowning as a result.
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Making the illogical leap from expressions of anti-immigrant sentiment in the UK resulting in people drowning in the Mediterranean Sea has to be one of your most ridiculous claims yet. People have been drowning in the Med for as long as the Med has been used as a migratory route for labour, without "assistance" from anti-immigrant sentiment in any European state.
Get a fucking grip, you twat.
 
Lo Siento. said:
What was the purpose in posting it? Do you think it answers the question put in the OP?

Being a political person, my first reaction to the thread title 'UKIP - why are they gaining support' is that people want info so they can affect what's happening.
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To which we can add that offered even the ghost of an alternative to the current neoliberal consensus - even if that alternative is bogus, and as neoliberal as the existing politics - people will express an interest. Some will especially take an interest when they are told by the existing political parties that UKIP are a "bad thing", because frankly, why wouldn't you want to piss off the neoliberal cockstrokers in Parliament?
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
It's a relevant supplementary question "Why are UKIP gaining support from the far right?"

So far, no one has attempted to answer it, though I have been told to fuck off.
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I've answered it. Twice at least on this thread alone.
For you, it's a simple equation - support from the non-parliamentary right = fascists supporting fascism.
For me, having been around fascist and anti-fascist politics and action in one form or another for 35+ years, it's never been a simple equation. Support for UKIP comes from all political directions, from the Colonel Blimp types of the Conservative Associations, to disenchanted Labourites looking for a protest vote that has more credibility and potential to do damage than voting Lib-Dem. You see the right as overwhelmingly a racist and fascist enterprise, when in reality racism is a minority pursuit, and fascist politics in the UK, notwithstanding the bleatings of HNH and UAF, is the purview of a couple of tens of thousands of people UK-wide, of which a small minority are actually activists.
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
Why have your politics not got more traction in this country Butch?
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Wow, another eejit who doesn't actually understand anarchism. :facepalm:

How is it that you are so clued up?
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Possibly because while you're stroking your cock over your copy of Photoshop, creating cheesy propaganda that even an apolitical boy scout would cringe at, he's active in his community, doing politics.
 
Lo Siento. said:
Again, it's not problematic, it's just pointless. The vast majority of UKIP members aren't fascists, they certainly aren't neo-nazis, and the party's message is not based in that tradition. The vast majority of their supporters aren't fascists or neo-nazis either, and don't see themselves in that tradition. So pointing out that a small minority of their supporters are, whilst hinting broadly at the blindingly obvious reasons for that support, has got to be - at best - a pretty inadequate way of approaching the problem. If not an actively damaging one if it encourages people to approach the problem in that way.
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It's not only inadequate, it's also alienating, and entirely ignorant of the dynamics of the electoral process. We have people from both main political positions expressing interest in UKIP, not because those people are crypto-fascist, but because they understand the electoral process, and (within the bounds of the process) are attempting to subvert the near-inevitability of a Labour or Tory or Lib-Dem win by voting tactically. Call those people fascists and/or racists, and all you do is chase them away from their broadly-left or right position into a more narrow one.
Personally, I'd rather destroy the whole fucking system, but I also believe in working with what we have until we achieve change, so on the whole I see the "protest vote" as a good thing, especially as if UKIP attain multiple seats in Parliament, they'll need to actually put meat to the bones of their promises to retain votes, and putting that meat to those bones will be highly problematic for them.
 
ViolentPanda said:
Wow, another eejit who doesn't actually understand anarchism. :facepalm:



Possibly because while you're stroking your cock over your copy of Photoshop, creating cheesy propaganda that even an apolitical boy scout would cringe at, he's active in his community, doing politics.
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How do you know im not? you must have made it up i suppose.
 
brogdale said:
'kinnel
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Doesn't that poll have UKIP down to 2-3% in Scotland? If so then if it is a Conservative-UKIP UK Parliamentary coalition after the next election, Scotland would be governed by the parties that are ranked 3rd and 6th and collectively represent less than 1 in 8 of the voters.... Even Thatcher represented a higher percentage of Scots than that.
 
Ungrateful said:
Doesn't that poll have UKIP down to 2-3% in Scotland? If so then if it is a Conservative-UKIP UK Parliamentary coalition after the next election, Scotland would be governed by the parties that are ranked 3rd and 6th and collectively represent less than 1 in 8 of the voters.... Even Thatcher represented a higher percentage of Scots than that.
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Why would that result in a UKIP/tory coalition?
 
butchersapron said:
Why would that result in a UKIP/tory coalition?
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Apologies for being unclear. My point is the difference between Scotland and England in terms of the electoral support for UKIP (and the Tories) as indicated by the latest Scottish poll. In England UKIP are rising and being portrayed as 'the likely king-makers' following 2015 election, almost certainly in coalition with Tories, whilst in Scotland they are utterly insignificant (lying within the standard margin for error). Such a UK government would represent Scotland almost as well as coalition made up of the Lib Dems and RESPECT would represent England's electoral preferences. I can't imagine the Union surviving long if it were to happen.
 
laptop said:
Let's see:
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Yeah, I support the thrust of your post, but....that calculus, obviously, does not take account of what the Scot's poll is showing and, just as importantly, it's not at all certain that NuLab will achieve a near 5% advantage over the tories.

If (huge if) Miliband lost 30+ of his Scot's seats, and UKIP do a little damage, he ain't gonna get anywhere near 346.
 
I would not be surprised to see an informal Unionist stop-the-SNP pact in Scotland, with Labour as the main beneficiary.
 
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