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Ukip - why are they gaining support?

andysays said:
Interesting also that you talk of wide-of-the-mark psychics while presuming to tell us that all UKIP supporters are rascists and fascists.
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no. but i've explained it enough and you'll believe and propagate what you like. It's the internet.

In other news: Someone, possibly gripped by the PC mania of the rootless metropolitan or what ever it's called, decided to ask some working class people about the effect of the immigration "debate".

However, the people asked may be the wrong sort of working class in terms of the ones UKIP pretend to represent.

The racialisation of class is one of the most insipid stunts the populist right have pulled in recent years.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/10/23/revealed-how-immigrants-feel-about-the-immigration-debate

It interests me that the report shows a difference between how people feel in their community (often fairly positively attached) and the more general national percpetion (much more hostility felt). What national forces could possibly be contingent in spreading toxic and unrealistic ideas?
 
taffboy gwyrdd said:
no. but i've explained it enough and you'll believe and propagate what you like. It's the internet.

In other news: Someone, possibly gripped by the PC mania of the rootless metropolitan or what ever it's called, decided to ask some working class people about the effect of the immigration "debate".

However, the people asked may be the wrong sort of working class in terms of the ones UKIP pretend to represent.

The racialisation of class is one of the most insipid stunts the populist right have pulled in recent years.

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/10/23/revealed-how-immigrants-feel-about-the-immigration-debate

It interests me that the report shows a difference between how people feel in their community (often fairly positively attached) and the more general national percpetion (much more hostility felt). What national forces could possibly be contingent in spreading toxic and unrealistic ideas?
Click to expand...

There are various other "national forces" which "could possibly be contingent in spreading toxic and unrealistic ideas" - large elements of the media and the three "mainstream" parties to name but two.

Or are you suggesting that your alleged growth in general national hostility to immigrants is entirely or even primarily down to UKIP?
 
andysays said:
There are various other "national forces" which "could possibly be contingent in spreading toxic and unrealistic ideas" - large elements of the media and the three "mainstream" parties to name but two.

Or are you suggesting that your alleged growth in general national hostility to immigrants is entirely or even primarily down to UKIP?
Click to expand...

The media is exactly what I was getting at, it's a perspective that has often been slammed down here.
 
10665695_394968053986468_6048181128890341373_n.png



Podemos are now second in some polls in Spain, here the insurgents are UKIP...
 
God that's shit, I mean even on it's own terms it's just absolute crap, about a million times less funny than the average Xmas cracker joke
 
andysays said:
And yet you chose to post it on a thread all about the Clacton by-election.

I think the truth is that you weren't even thinking full stop.

Interesting also that you talk of wide-of-the-mark psychics while presuming to tell us that all UKIP supporters are rascists and fascists.
Click to expand...

Aren't they, though? I've never met a UKIP supporter who hasn't made some comment about the "coloureds"/foreigners/gays etc. But maybe the fault lies with me & I'm tarring them all with the same brush.

What scares me is rather than stand up to them, the mainstream political parties seem to be copying them (hello, Mr Fallon).

And it seems to me, naive as I am, that it's suddenly becoming taboo in certain circles to criticise the party as being racist. Personally, I believe that fascism lite is creeping in by stealth and it's the thin end of the wedge.

Just my tuppence worth.
 
krtek a houby said:
Aren't they, though? I've never met a UKIP supporter who hasn't made some comment about the "coloureds"/foreigners/gays etc. But maybe the fault lies with me & I'm tarring them all with the same brush.

What scares me is rather than stand up to them, the mainstream political parties seem to be copying them (hello, Mr Fallon).

And it seems to me, naive as I am, that it's suddenly becoming taboo in certain circles to criticise the party as being racist. Personally, I believe that fascism lite is creeping in by stealth and it's the thin end of the wedge.

Just my tuppence worth.
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It's not taboo, it's just pointless.
 
krtek a houby said:
Aren't they, though? I've never met a UKIP supporter who hasn't made some comment about the "coloureds"/foreigners/gays etc.
Click to expand...

What if you separated out the 'foreigners' element? Because that is in part what UKIP are supposed to be about.

And it seems to me, naive as I am, that it's suddenly becoming taboo in certain circles to criticise the party as being racist.
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Well yes, because they're supposed to not be. UKIP's point is that they want to control all immigration, not just non-white. Now that of course resonates with the racists who want to get rid of non-whites, but it also resonates with a lot of other people who see the country becoming more and more crowded and themselves being undercut by immigrants in general who will accept lower wages and worse working conditions and have the freedom to move while they are tied down by bureaucracy.

How much of that is a polite fiction is another question.
 
if you think ukip are fascism lite then you haven't understood fascism, in modern or historical context. What ukip are not plauged by, unlike the bnp and its 'nutzi' wing (griffins term for semi-allied nf's BM's and assorted hitler cultists/out and out fash) UKIP retains some respectability (not to me but in the eyes of society) precisely because it isn't that. It's not even britain first. To align a populist right movement automatically with fascism is lazy and innacurate. Thats before we get into the motivations of ukip voters- clacton is not the fifth riech.
 
Quartz said:
What if you separated out the 'foreigners' element? Because that is in part what UKIP are supposed to be about.



Well yes, because they're supposed to not be. UKIP's point is that they want to control all immigration, not just non-white. Now that of course resonates with the racists who want to get rid of non-whites, but it also resonates with a lot of other people who see the country becoming more and more crowded and themselves being undercut by immigrants in general who will accept lower wages and worse working conditions and have the freedom to move while they are tied down by bureaucracy.

How much of that is a polite fiction is another question.
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Is the country crowded? Or isn't vast swathes of it owned by the uber rich privileged elistists? Why don't UKIP have a go at them? Why pander to fears of otherness - foreigners etc?
 
krekt, you know I disagree with you often but we've never had words too rancorous have we- what do you say to post #4069 ?
 
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