Ukip - why are they gaining support?

[Bernie Gunther]

The opinions expressed by UKIP which their critics find objectionable were until relatively recently commonly held and freely expressed among ordinary British people, what has changed apart from the loss of that freedom is the general population and its values have become gentrified.

What else is political correctness but a reflection of the gentrification of western populations and their increasing discomfort with the realities of biological and cultural survival.

That's more than 14 words ...

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Pretty much the same sentiment though.

... the realities of biological and cultural survival.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

That's not the case for everybody that votes for them - there are plenty of disaffected tories who know exactly what UKIP are about and are quite happy with it. I know and am even related to some of them. Aside from the working class vote that seems to be the focus of much of this discussion, there is a fairly substantial voter base of better off older white folk, a socially conservative older generation who is quite comfortable but frankly doesn't like the fact some of their money is taken to be put in the mouths of less deserving types, some of whom (and probably much less than they think) didn't even have the decency to be born here. I've seen data on voting demographics which reflects this, although it is from earlier this year, and I suspect that they've broadened their appeal since then, but still, at that time that was the bulk of it.

Absoultely, and this is getting lost in the general panic - a panic instigated by right wing media deliberately seeking to offset the much greater damage to conservatives than labour. Yes, labour are threatened and the disruption of lots of 15+ % scores forUKIP under FPTP makes things hard to predict. But overall, we stand back and objectively view things - it's far worse for tories and it will probably provide a stronger core as the clear anti working class truth about UKIP continues to be made known (again, don't look to mainstream media for this too much)

This faction that most resonates with UKIP rhetoric might be called the "bitter bourgeoisie" or those who at least aspire that way.

Modernity and globalisation were all very well when they meant using your house as a money box and getting cheap consumables on the backs of sweatshop labour. But when that labour might look to move around a bit, or the natural consequences of funny money come home to roost....they suddenly get all miserable and moany. They are those of the generation who fucked things up to suit themselves, and now don't mind if others are continuinly fucked to keep themselves in the arrogance they have become accustomed to.

And, if the columns of their favoured rags are much to go by, they don't much like gays or foreigners but they arent even ALLOWED to say it because of the political correctness that has GONE MAD (there's even an actual brigade FFS). But for all the bigotry, and stacks of evidence of it, we perhaps shouldn't point out that some of them are bigots (not that it seems electorally too effective anyway)

We may scoff at dilberto's points, but plenty of people believe that stuff. They seeth against multiculturalism night and day, so did Breivik but that's coincidence. Britains First and Robinson/Lennon cheerleading UKIP is coincidence too. And Farage et al playing into "diseased foreigners / muslim paedo" narratives just like Griffin did. farage calls himself "thatcherite", she managed to recapture NF votes and buddied up with Pinochet. If tories can harbour race hate filth and even hitler lickers in membership and support (check out The Monday Club and their successors, and just for good measure Rothermere's dad was another hitler licker), why not UKIP? Then there's some of the European and US types interested in what UKIP are achieving. That part of the spectrum may not be full on KKK, Jobik or whover, but it's not that dis similar or distant a cesspool, and there will always be a % who want to vote for that kind of thing given a chance (I'd say 5 to 10%).

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

That's more than 14 words ...

Curious that comparrisons between UKIP and the far right are quickly and vigourosly shot down on here. Then lo and behold... possibly the biggest UKIP apologist on the thread (of late anyway, long thread) has to be called out for Judeophobic and 14W tropes just as quickly.

 

[chilango]

Curious that comparrisons between UKIP and the far right are quickly and vigourosly shot down on here. Then lo and behold... possibly the biggest UKIP apologist on the thread (of late anyway, long thread) has to be called out for Judeophobic and 14W tropes just as quickly.

It's not curious at all.

 

[youngian]

You're not ordinary and how dare you pretend to speak for me, you white supremacist fuck.

Those decadent out-of-touch liberals up there in the big city is not a new narrative for the populist far right. Particularly popular with chippy petty bourgeoisie ex-corporals who were too talentless to get into art college.

 

[butchersapron]

Curious that comparrisons between UKIP and the far right are quickly and vigourosly shot down on here. Then lo and behold... possibly the biggest UKIP apologist on the thread (of late anyway, long thread) has to be called out for Judeophobic and 14W tropes just as quickly.

What are you suggesting here?

Why do you bother with the same frothing rant that no one reads every fucking night as well?

Here's some useful and largely spot-on insider thoughts for you and your type to ignore:

Is UKIP taking some progressive stances that Labour is afraid of taking?

A simple examination of the issues surrounding the protection of the NHS lays bare the dangers to Labour from UKIP. At its conference in late September, UKIP made it quite clear – the party is to work with the trade union Unite in opposing the inclusion of the NHS in TTIP (the secretive proposed transatlantic trade agreement). This was not some weasel worded statement which you expect from the main parties about “working with partners and stakeholders to ensure the best outcome for the NHS” etc. It was a noisy and passionate defence of the NHS, by a party whose membership and voters are among the NHS’s strongest supporters. And an unusual commitment to support the campaign of another organisation, with all that that implies and carries by way of dangers.

This has wrong-footed the political class and the partisan commentators to such a degree that they have responded yet again with a patronising and inept failure to understand the nature of UKIP and the degree to which the party membership genuinely believes in such a stance, and how it has always been inevitable that a big part of its programme would encompass support for measures which might be described as left wing. They have all had plenty of warning.

By now, almost everyone in the UK knows a friend who votes, or has voted, UKIP. Almost without fail, they know them not to be what the Westminster smear machines claim them to be. It is counterproductive, therefore, to carry on smearing.

During the European Elections campaign, I was called by many journalists who wanted me (as a former senior party member, former vice chair, leadership candidate, elected member of the London Assembly and NEC member for a turbulent decade) to slag off the party and particularly its leader. I was even offered inducements. And it has happened since as well, journalists and broadcasters planning to try and attack the party and wanting assistance with their “journalism”. What struck me most of all was that the sheer volume of negative smearing now has very little effect on those committed to vote UKIP, and an ever lessening impact on voters of other parties.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Absoultely, and this is getting lost in the general panic - a panic instigated by right wing media deliberately seeking to offset the much greater damage to conservatives than labour. Yes, labour are threatened and the disruption of lots of 15+ % scores forUKIP under FPTP makes things hard to predict. But overall, we stand back and objectively view things - it's far worse for tories and it will probably provide a stronger core as the clear anti working class truth about UKIP continues to be made known (again, don't look to mainstream media for this too much)

No - it's bad for both parties. They are taking votes from trad Labour and trad Tory voters.

We may scoff at dilberto's points, but plenty of people believe that stuff. They seeth against multiculturalism night and day.

No, there aren't. Many people say things like "Well, there's too many of them." Very few people talk about cultural and biological survical.

 

[SpackleFrog]

What are you suggesting here?

Why do you bother with the same frothing rant that no one reads every fucking night as well?

Here's some useful and largely spot-on insider thoughts for you and your type to ignore:

Is UKIP taking some progressive stances that Labour is afraid of taking?

Dammit Butchers, was just about to post that!

 

[ViolentPanda]

The opinions expressed by UKIP which their critics find objectionable were until relatively recently commonly held and freely expressed among ordinary British people, what has changed apart from the loss of that freedom is the general population and its values have become gentrified.

What else is political correctness but a reflection of the gentrification of western populations and their increasing discomfort with the realities of biological and cultural survival.

Thank you for your insight, Monsieur de Benoist.

 

[nino_savatte]

The Euro-sceptic group in the European Parliament has collapsed.

One of the main Eurosceptic groups in the European Parliament, which includes Britain's UKIP, has collapsed after a Latvian MEP withdrew.

The Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy (EFDD) group had 48 members including the Five Star Movement of Italian politician Beppe Grillo.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29646414

It looks like Farage's access to one source of cash has dried up.

 

[Nylock]

The opinions expressed by UKIP which their critics find objectionable were until relatively recently commonly held and freely expressed among ordinary British people, what has changed apart from the loss of that freedom is the general population and its values have become gentrified.

What else is political correctness but a reflection of the gentrification of western populations and their increasing discomfort with the realities of biological and cultural survival.

Bollocks

 

[SpackleFrog]

The Euro-sceptic group in the European Parliament has collapsed.


It looks like Farage's access to one source of cash has dried up.

Fortunately they've creamed millions from the EU gravy train for years, secured some financial backing in the UK and got their MP in just in time...

 

[Pickman's model]

haha http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/16/ukip-efdd-group-collapse-brussels

i know mentioned above by nino_savatte, but deserves another plug

 

[Quartz]

It looks like Farage's access to one source of cash has dried up.

Not really. It's a source of extra cash, but he's still on the gravy train.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not really. It's a source of extra cash, but he's still on the gravy train.

pity he won't drown in the gravy

 

[nino_savatte]

Not really. It's a source of extra cash, but he's still on the gravy train.

Hence the reason I said one source of cash. Keep up.

 

[Quartz]

The opinions expressed by UKIP which their critics find objectionable were until relatively recently commonly held and freely expressed among ordinary British people, what has changed apart from the loss of that freedom is the general population and its values have become gentrified.

UKIP's views are whatever Farage wants them to be, which are what he thinks will gain favour and attention. There's no solid underpinning.

What else is political correctness but a reflection of the gentrification of western populations and their increasing discomfort with the realities of biological and cultural survival.

What are you smoking?

Hence the reason I said one source of cash. Keep up.

Sorry, you're quite right.

 

[DemolitionRed]

I love this group and I especially love Taffboy... just saying!

 

[butchersapron]

UKIP's views are whatever Farage wants them to be, which are what he thinks will gain favour and attention. There's no solid underpinning.



What are you smoking?



Sorry, you're quite right.

Whose views are ukip voters?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

What are you suggesting here?

Why do you bother with the same frothing rant that no one reads every fucking night as well?

Here's some useful and largely spot-on insider thoughts for you and your type to ignore:

Is UKIP taking some progressive stances that Labour is afraid of taking?

First, it's clear what I am suggesting : That there is a gap in logic between

a) Being consistently scathing of the idea that we should highlight/condemn some of the nastier ideas lurking on the hard right.

And

b) Highlighting and Condemning some of those ideas very shortly after

Second, if I am to take advice from anyone about how to avoid repeatative behaviour on the internets, I'm afraid you won't be very near the top of the list.

Lastly, thanks for the link to UKIP and TTIP. It's the most substantive thing I've seen on the topic I think.

Whenever I quizzed UKIP people on TTIP they tended to be very evasive, mostly saying that because it was being negotiated via the EU they neednt discuss it because they wanted to pull out of the EU.

This dodge didnt make sense, because there's plenty about the EU they slag off 24/7, but not TTIP.

In any case, in or out of the EU, it's the plethora of Bi Lateral Investment Treaties (BITs) that are truly problematic but that's detail neither the kipborg or MSM don't bother with.

Now it seems that some of them have caught on to the danger, in part at least. Is it only the NHS they seem to be bothered about? They've been very badly caught out on that topic and I trust the instincts of Farage and Nuttall to privatise more than any passion on the conference floor.

As I said upthread, UKIP are now into the former LD practice of picking up on passing interesting sounding things. Opposition to HS2 is one, any Damascus moment on TTIP would be another, not that this is to be churlish - it's better than a kick in the balls. But only The left and greens the EU structure have any credible track record on opposition.

Can UKIP posture as more left than Labour on some issues? big deal if they can, it's barely the most difficult of things to manage, though I'm sure they compensate elsewhere. And while only a fool would look to labour for leadership on something like TTIP (they are more lukewarm than tories and Libdems) I imagine their rank and file would be at least as robust in defending the NHS at conference . It doesn't have to mean much, Labour don't listen to members, UKIP make up policy on the hoof and cant be depended on.

Finally, that piece makes an interesting claim that UKIP members no longer listen to the establishment or their mouthpieces. What a coincidence then that the ceaseless cyberbelming of the kipborg legion chimes so harmonically with the political line of establishment mouthpieces like Mail/Express/Star/Sun.

The "anti establishment" thing is grand hoax.

We saw a proper establishment panic when it looked like Scotland might vote "yes". The "panic" about UKIP is nothing like as deep or threatening.

 

[butchersapron]

Nah. Fuck that.

 

[fucthest8]

What Do Ukip Stand For? Jack from Welling on line twat explains all
http://audioboom.com/boos/2550913-what-do-ukip-stand-for-james-o-brien-s-takedown-of-this-supporter-is-effortless

The opinions expressed by UKIP which their critics find objectionable were until relatively recently commonly held and freely expressed among ordinary British people, what has changed apart from the loss of that freedom is the general population and its values have become gentrified.
What else is political correctness but a reflection of the gentrification of western populations and their increasing discomfort with the realities of biological and cultural survival.

UKIP's views are whatever Farage wants them to be, which are what he thinks will gain favour and attention. There's no solid underpinning.

Doubtless many of you will be able to prove me wrong, but I really think that we* ignore all the above at our peril. Jack from Welling and dilberto above might be morons, but they are morons with a vote. Morons who believe, to paraphrase Jack, that "people only care about immigration" and that Farage is giving voice to "ordinary British people".

Quartz is spot on, but - so what? He doesn't need any solid underpinning, if they can get enough favour and attention, they get MPs.



*people who believe that we see UKIP for what they really are

 

[butchersapron]

dilberto is a far-right racist playing at man-in-the-street. Man-in-the-street - UKIP included - have never had any interest in them. Working class british people have no interest in dilberto. dilberto and his types have to pretend three things 1) that they do 2) and they are are the voice of these people and 3) that him and his racist mates express these w/c interests even if w/c people don't recognise it.

How well do you think they're doing?

There are people to take seriously - the above cuckoo is not one of them.

 

[brogdale]

we* ignore all the above at our peril.

Posted on page 129 of a thread called "Ukip - why are they gaining support"

 

[fucthest8]

Posted on page 129 of a thread called "Ukip - why are they gaining support"

129 pages of people arguing about whether or not they pose a threat. Do you see?

 

[butchersapron]

129 pages of people arguing about whether or not they pose a threat. Do you see?

Not being funny mate, but, you ain't read it have you?

 

[brogdale]

129 pages of people arguing about whether or not they pose a threat. Do you see?

Not really.
What threat to whom or what are the posters on this thread ignoring?

 

[fucthest8]

dilberto is a far-right racist playing at man-in-the-street. Man-in-the-street - UKIP included - have never had any interest in them. Working class british people have no interest in dilberto. dilberto and his types have to pretend three things 1) that they do 2) and they are are the voice of these people and 3) that him and his racist mates express these w/c interests even if w/c people don't recognise it.

How well do you think they're doing?

There are people to take seriously - the above cuckoo is not one of them.

Fair point perhaps re: dilberto specifically, but there are plenty of people out there who aren't playing at man-in-the street. There are plenty of working class British rascists and just plain disaffected working class British

I paid really close attention at the last council elections down here. UKIP did pretty well really in many of the working class ward. Not sure this will look very good but here goes

1st 2nd 3rd
Alphington Lab 808 Con 583 UKIP 529
Cowick Lab 813 UKIP 406 Con 400
Exwick Lab 870 UKIP 601 Con 320
Pinhoe Lab 862 Con 828 UKIP 460
Priory Lab/Co-op 1110 UKIP 721 Con 504

Gah, doesn't format nicely sorry.

The point is that whilst Labour held all those (and indeed took Pinhoe, see next point), UKIP were at their heels in two (Exwick and Priory). And yes, perhaps some shift was Con voters going to UKIP (see Pinhoe, taken from Con), it still makes for uncomfortable reading

 

[fucthest8]

Not being funny mate, but, you ain't read it have you?

Dipped in and out over the last couple of months, but no, I haven't read all 129 pages, absolutely not. Apologies if there is more of an agreement that they are a real threat than the last few pages and the parts I have read previously gave me cause to believe. I just hear a lot of sneering still (not here, IRL) and it makes me nervous.