Tory Leadership contest 2022

[Storm Fox]

But when people are given the choice between a left-wing politician and a right-wing one, they choose the right-wing. Foot vs Thatcher or Corbyn Vs Bojo.
If newspapers are against the leader then it makes it difficult. But you cannot get around this, or if you can you are talking censorship. Perhaps a law could be enacted it make the Newspapers more truthful. But that is not going to happen until Labour is in power.
Both Foot and Corbyn were popular in their political corners but lacked wider support and without this wider support Labour are not going to win.
If the aim is for a left-wing government. there are going to need to compromise.

Through years of media bias, I think the majority of people see themselves as right of centre and do not see themselves as natural Labour voters, even though they would greatly benefit. So we need a popular leader who can appeal to a wider audience and then start to enact more left wing policies once in power. Otherwise, it's just yelling from the sidelines with the newspapers taking the piss. Whether Starmer is that person, Probably not.

 

[Flavour]

i quite like Liz Truss she seems like a good laugh

 

[Pickman's model]

i quite like Liz Truss she seems like a good laugh

she'll be a better laugh when she's pushing up daisies

 

[Flavour]

isn't the objective of the game to make people laugh? one of Britain's most successful cultural exports is comedy. the only shame is that we won't get to see a Liz Truss / Donald Trump joint press conference, that would have been absolutely peak

 

[teqniq]

Judging by all the comments on here and Twitter, she's just the car crash the vermin need.

 

[Cat Fan]

This Labour Party is not a faction of the left, by any reasonable definition of that term. Can you tell me any policies they have that qualify them for that term?

In the UK (a generally conservative leaning country) they are left of the median voter on both economic and social issues and no one could reasonably argue otherwise.

 

[krtek a houby]

Has this been posted yet?

God help us/you/them all

Why are they so utterly shit?

 

[Cat Fan]

i live in a tory safe seat at present
previously a labour safe seat
my vote is meaningless in our one party state

Sounds like a red wall seat which are actually the key battleground in the next election? Don't assume it will be safe. Individual votes do matter.

 

[ruffneck23]

 

[krtek a houby]

isn't the objective of the game to make people laugh? one of Britain's most successful cultural exports is comedy. the only shame is that we won't get to see a Liz Truss / Donald Trump joint press conference, that would have been absolutely peak

Don't be so sure of that

 

[Ax^]

Judging by all the comments on here and Twitter, she's just the car crash the vermin need.

Talk she a bojo plant so he can sneak back in at some point

Full expecting him to pull a trump move and let out a tweet going miss me yet before Christmas

 

[kabbes]

In the UK (a generally conservative leaning country) they are left of the median voter on both economic and social issues and no one could reasonably argue otherwise.

This is relativist nonsense. It implies that Mussolini would have been left wing in Nazi Germany. The terms left and right refer to how the ownership and employment of capital and labour are ideologically positioned. If you believe in free market neoliberalism then you are right wing. You don’t become left wing just because somebody else has an even more fundamentalist hot take on it than you do. The current Labour Party are politically right wing

 

[maomao]

.

 

[teqniq]

Talk she a bojo plant so he can sneak back in at some point

Full expecting him to pull a trump move and let out a tweet going miss me yet before Christmas

Yes, I've seen those thoughts too. Very little would surprise me at this point, particularly with Johnson talking about 'the deep state'.

 

[ska invita]

But when people are given the choice between a left-wing politician and a right-wing one, they choose the right-wing. Foot vs Thatcher or Corbyn Vs Bojo.
If newspapers are against the leader then it makes it difficult. But you cannot get around this, or if you can you are talking censorship. Perhaps a law could be enacted it make the Newspapers more truthful. But that is not going to happen until Labour is in power.
Both Foot and Corbyn were popular in their political corners but lacked wider support and without this wider support Labour are not going to win.
If the aim is for a left-wing government. there are going to need to compromise.

Through years of media bias, I think the majority of people see themselves as right of centre and do not see themselves as natural Labour voters, even though they would greatly benefit. So we need a popular leader who can appeal to a wider audience and then start to enact more left wing policies once in power. Otherwise, it's just yelling from the sidelines with the newspapers taking the piss. Whether Starmer is that person, Probably not.

The logic of your post is just have all parties as Tory parties.
Worth remembering Corbyn was ahead in the polls for the majority of his time as leader, lost by 2% in the popular vote to May, etc. a win from the left is not impossible, but it is literally impossible if there are no parties of the left in contention

Sounds like a red wall seat which are actually the key battleground in the next election? Don't assume it will be safe. Individual votes do matter.

i live in London

 

[sleaterkinney]

Would get more joy from seeing Starmer lose than win, so yeah
If he cant beat Truss just maybe the Labour party might learn some kind of lesson. Him winning teaches them the worse lesson of all, and reinforces our one party state. So yeah a better outcome would be he loses.

Blair winning was a massive fuck up and set back for this country, no reason to think the same isnt true of Starmer winning

Why the fuck would you want more of the tories?.

 

[Artaxerxes]

A safe seat is one that’s not changed in twenty plus years. Like mine

 

[killer b]

In the UK (a generally conservative leaning country) they are left of the median voter on both economic and social issues and no one could reasonably argue otherwise.

this isn't true - polling generally shows the country to the left of all parties on economic issues - wide support for nationalisations and general keynesian stuff at least. Socially it's a bit more of a wild mix that really depends what question is asked and how, but it's still not really true that Britain is particularly conservative.

 

[Storm Fox]

The logic of your post is just have all parties as Tory parties.
Worth remembering Corbyn was ahead in the polls for the majority of his time as leader, lost by 2% in the popular vote to May, etc. a win from the left is not impossible, but it is literally impossible if there are no parties of the left in contention

But Johnson had an 80-seat majority. This was after a further 2 years for people to see Corbyn as a party leader, if what you said is the case he should have increased his lead in the popular vote in 2019, if not a majority of seats. An election decided by the percentage of the population voting for them is not going to happen until there is a leader who can appeal to a large broad population and win a GE and then change the voting system from FPTP.

 

[ska invita]

Why the fuck would you want more of the tories?.

TOries are the only two options on the table. Id like to have a non-TOry option

 

[Artaxerxes]

You get a left leaning government when the papers and media aren’t fully fucking aligned in tells us how bad Evil Jam Man wants to sell your Kids to Paedos.

It’s not rocket science, the government and media are ever more closely entwined to pursue profit at the expense of people and push an agenda to keep us divided and the state weak in the face of corporate domination.

 

[ska invita]

Why the fuck would you want more of the tories?.

Blair suggested people shouldnt vote Labour in 2019 - de facto Wants More Tories - so you might want to turn that question to him and his Starmer acolytes

 

[planetgeli]

So we need a popular leader who can appeal to a wider audience and then start to enact more left wing policies once in power.

I've been hearing this for 40 years or more. And it's rubbish. Essentially you are saying we elect a leader of the Labour party who can trick the electorate then fiendishly open up a left wing manifesto when in power. No individual would ever act this way and even if they did the structures of power are aligned against allowing this to happen. Once in power Labour always moves to the right, and there's a reason for this.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I was wrong with my previous post wasn't I. Its gonna be Truss.

 

[sleaterkinney]

TOries are the only two options on the table. Id like to have a non-TOry option

There should be a Tusc or Workers Revolutionary party option for you to vote for.

 

[Cat Fan]

i live in London

There are not so many safe Tory seats in London. More are turning red or yellow every election. I'm assuming you are in the outer boroughs where you may find the Lib Dems have the best chance of beating the Tories?

 

[Cat Fan]

this isn't true - polling generally shows the country to the left of all parties on economic issues - wide support for nationalisations and general keynesian stuff at least. Socially it's a bit more of a wild mix that really depends what question is asked and how, but it's still not really true that Britain is particularly conservative.

Not sure that gives the whole picture, the Brexit vote was a thing as well. And tax rises are hugely unpopular.

Nationalisation is just popular because people think it would give them lower bills, which it probably would to be fair.

 

[Santino]

Nationalisation is just popular because people think it would give them lower bills, which it probably would to be fair.

Bah. Idiotic voters supporting policies just because they would make things better.

 

[prunus]

The Forde Report

I think it's flawed by a lack of consideration of power dynamics but it paints a decent picture of what was going on.

Thank you; I've only read section 4 so far, as directly relevant so it seems to me to the idea that senior officials were actively campaigning against electoral success - it doesn't read to me that the report supports that idea, it says that yes there were people operating 'below the radar' (and wrongly) to divert support to [anti-Corbyn] MPs who were being underfunded by the leadership, but in an attempt to maximise electoral success (or minimise losses), not to damage success. It also says that the leadership was guilty of diverting funding to [pro-Corbyn] MPs who normally wouldn't get such funding (being deemed to be in safe seats), away from [anti-corbyn] MPs in seats that were at risk. It also seems to suggest that the former action of HQ was in response to the latter described action of the leadership.

Overall it paints a picture of a clusterfuck of a riven party, but explicitly says that both sides were acting in what they thought was the best interests of the party and its electoral success, and there wasn't any sabotage of that being attempted.

 

[killer b]

Not sure that gives the whole picture, the Brexit vote was a thing as well. And tax rises are hugely unpopular.

Nationalisation is just popular because people think it would give them lower bills, which it probably would to be fair.

People voted for Brexit for a mixture of reasons, many which couldn't really be considered right wing. And tax rises for rich people are very popular - 64% think the rich are taxed too little.

Are taxes on the rich too high or low in Britain?

Thinking about the level of taxes paid by the richest people in Britain, do you think they are too high, too low, or about right?

yougov.co.uk