Tory Leadership contest 2022

[krtek a houby]

I remember I was talking about the Irish Tea-sock thing with someone and whether it was a wind-up and they said no, she really is that stupid.

"Irish Tea-sock thing"?

 

[krtek a houby]

I've never understood people who claim to be left wing but spend all their energy hating on other factions of the left.

That's one reason the Tories have stayed in power so long imo, they're better at burying their differences when they need to.

It's more fun burying our own

 

[prunus]

Would get more joy from seeing Starmer lose than win, so yeah
If he cant beat Truss just maybe the Labour party might learn some kind of lesson. Him winning teaches them the worse lesson of all, and reinforces our one party state. So yeah a better outcome would be he loses.

Blair winning was a massive fuck up and set back for this country, no reason to think the same isnt true of Starmer winning

To my mind this is such a wrong-headed view as to be almost incomprehensible. Yes the broad church Labour Party required to get sufficient electoral support to actually win requires some regrettable (from an idealistic point of view) compromises, but such is democracy.

You’re suggesting that the only labour election victory in two generations was a “massive fuck up” - do I take it from that that you think that the UK would be in a better state now if we’d been under continuous Tory rule for the past 43 years? I’d have to disagree with you there - that truly would be a one-party state.

 

[two sheds]

grrrr dp fucked up quoting

 

[two sheds]

"Irish Tea-sock thing"?

She's only foreign secretary though, no reason she should know.

 

[contadino]

They can pull out whatever incriminating shit they have on Truss, but I really don't think the Tory membership will vote for anyone non-white.

 

[krtek a houby]

That's desperate

Then again, Tory scum have never shown any respect towards any aspect of Ireland, its people, culture or language

 

[Bus Honeygun]

Stupefying.

Truss got her first ministerial post in the department I work for. Trying to be as non-partisan as I can, after working there for over 20 years you obviously get a feel for them - I mean, Eustice is a twat, obviously, but he's undoubtedly committed, Hillary Benn was one of the few who made the effort to meet the troops regularly etc. etc. - but Truss was invisible. Appeared to do absolutely nothing. I assumed that she was a flash in the pan, so was amazed to see that she was promoted again after a few years. And here we are 12 more down the line. What. The. Fuck.

Isn't she into that corporate synergies bullshit self-advancement voodoo? It obviously works. It's the only fucking explanation I can think of for how someone so vapidly talentless has advanced so quickly and so far.

 

[Kaka Tim]

They can pull out whatever incriminating shit they have on Truss, but I really don't think the Tory membership will vote for anyone non-white.

i don't Sunak's ethnicity is a huge issue with them. And Racists will often make exceptions for individuals. Bad Enoch was most popular candidate with the membership.

 

[petee]

I did once hear an American newsreader pronounce the name of a certain all-ireland political party as "sin fin".

 

[Kaka Tim]

Time for the "liz truss/rishi sunack's time is up" time is up threads?

 

[kabbes]

I've never understood people who claim to be left wing but spend all their energy hating on other factions of the left.

This Labour Party is not a faction of the left, by any reasonable definition of that term. Can you tell me any policies they have that qualify them for that term?

 

[Supine]

This Labour Party is not a faction of the left, by any reasonable definition of that term. Can you tell me any policies they have that qualify them for that term?

An example of how badly labour are fractured. John McD accusing Starmer of stealing labour policies!

 

[The39thStep]

Cummings pen picture of Truss is brilliant

 

[Smokeandsteam]

i don't Sunak's ethnicity is a huge issue with them. And Racists will often make exceptions for individuals. Bad Enoch was most popular candidate with the membership.

Indeed. Both identity obsessed liberals and the insurgent right are seeking to commodify race. Sunak and Badenoch are the ‘right kind of blacks’ for Tories hence the focus on their back stories emphasising aspiration, graft and the brilliance of meritocratic Britain. In the case of Sunak voting for him is the narrative that justifies the structural realities.

 

[prunus]

An example of how badly labour are fractured. John McD accusing Starmer of stealing labour policies!

Why does it matter who developed the policies? (Not a rhetorical question - I’d actually like to know why he thinks it matters. And I’m generally a fan of John Mcd.)

 

[SpookyFrank]

Why does it matter who developed the policies? (Not a rhetorical question - I’d actually like to know why he thinks it matters. And I’m generally a fan of John Mcd.)

Yeah there aren't many new ideas in politics. You'd think the important thing would be whether a policy actually happens or not, rather than who gets the credit for it. That's the bit that matters to ordinary punters.

 

[Plumdaff]

I don't like the Labour Right because it views anyone to the right of them as decent reasonable debating fellows and anyone to the left of them as implacable enemies to be driven out of public life by any means necessary. We've just had a report confirming that senior Labour officials were actively campaigning against electoral success when there was a moderate social democratic programme before the electorate. The very least I can do is not vote for the fuckers.

 

[brogdale]

Yeah there aren't many new ideas in politics. You'd think the important thing would be whether a policy actually happens or not, rather than who gets the credit for it. That's the bit that matters to ordinary punters.

In a slightly ham-fisted manner, I suspect that's the point that JM was attempting to make; it just came across as self-referential sour-grapes.

 

[prunus]

I don't like the Labour Right because it views anyone to the right of them as decent reasonable debating fellows and anyone to the left of them as implacable enemies to be driven out of public life by any means necessary. We've just had a report confirming that senior Labour officials were actively campaigning against electoral success when there was a moderate social democratic programme before the electorate. The very least I can do is not vote for the fuckers.

I’d be very interested in that report, so know what it’s called/where I can find it? Thanks.

 

[Petcha]

Has this been posted yet?

 

[PR1Berske]

 

[ska invita]

no, if the labour 'centrists' lose an election or do badly in a poll, they take it as an indication that they haven't moved far enough to the right

this lot arent centrists

 

[ska invita]

The last 100 years tell us that Labour is far more likely to move even further to the right if Starmer loses. In fact that’s exactly what the Blairites plan to do....

...in power

 

[ska invita]

I've never understood people who claim to be left wing but spend all their energy hating on other factions of the left.

Starmer is not part of a left faction - he crushes left factions

 

[ska invita]

Will you be voting Conservative at the next election then?

i live in a tory safe seat at present
previously a labour safe seat
my vote is meaningless in our one party state

 

[Plumdaff]

I’d be very interested in that report, so know what it’s called/where I can find it? Thanks

The Forde Report

I think it's flawed by a lack of consideration of power dynamics but it paints a decent picture of what was going on.

 

[ska invita]

You’re suggesting that the only labour election victory in two generations was a “massive fuck up” - do I take it from that that you think that the UK would be in a better state now if we’d been under continuous Tory rule for the past 43 years? I’d have to disagree with you there - that truly would be a one-party state.

Yes. Thatcher knew it, is why she said her biggest achievement was Tony Blair. With Blair and Blairism it was the death knell of any sense of opposition in UK parliamentary politics, of any meaningful alternative to vote for. It was the End of History for the struggle between Tories and Labour. A Starmer win bangs nails into that coffin.

Continuous Tory rule would have been preferable in my opinion - we have had continuous Tory rule anyway - but with Actual continuous Tory rule there would be more clarity about what opposition to it could be. After 43 years people might just stop and ask if the system isnt broken. Instead the illusion lives on

 

[SpookyFrank]

this lot arent centrists

Hence the inverted commas I suppose. They would probably describe themselves as centrists, even though it makes zero sense to only define your own politics by reference to that of other people.

 

[ska invita]

Hence the inverted commas I suppose. They would probably describe themselves as centrists, even though it makes zero sense to only define your own politics by reference to that of other people.

what do we know about policy announcements so far? tax policy to the right of Sunak, commitment to more privatisation of the NHS and contradicting reality that Israel is an Apartheid state. Centrist in speech marks just doesnt work. Oh and weve got Rachel "Labour will be tougher than Tories on benefits" Reeves on the shadow bench too