Too many immigration threads on UK P&P?

[nino_savatte]

What would that agenda be? You don't have the first clue what I think. You don't read my posts. You have no idea whether I am in complete agreement with you or not.

What's your agenda? I haven't the faintest idea because you are simply incoherent.

Take my advice. Saying something which isn't appalling or don't say anything at all.

That's right, Knotted, you're perfect and you never put a foot wrong. Of course you don't know what I'm talking about because it suits you to play the innocent.

You don't read my posts.

Vous jouez la violon d'Ingres encore. You misrepresent my posts, we're even.

 

[durruti02]

And again, you misquote me.

What happened to the bit that you edited out? I guess it wouldn't serve your 'argument' to quote the text in full - would it? Your "workers" movement is too narrow and too focussed on ideas of national identity. It also embraces a great deal of ignorance.

If you want people to take you seriously, you should try being a little more honest.

nino it is there! just read my post .. a apology wouldn't go amiss

In the OP nino admits .. "Economic migration is caused by the effect of neo-liberal economic policies .... " that migration is happenning and that it is caused by neo liberalism .. he must then also accept that it has an effect .. and that that effect needs to be countered by the workers movement.

However that sentance i qouted above finishes " ...that have been imposed on that country by the US." apart from the idea that neoliberalism is a purely US thing which is nonsense, this appears to suggest that nino belives that migration is a totally PUSH process. I tried to get debate on this in one of my threads. Clearly if we accept and understand neo liberalism and that its policies cause PUSH in many poor countries, we must also accept that they will operate to casue PULL in others, namely UKinc.

 

[nino_savatte]

nino it is there! just read my post .. a apology wouldn't go amiss

In the OP nino admits .. "Economic migration is caused by the effect of neo-liberal economic policies .... " that migration is happenning and that it is caused by neo liberalism .. he must then also accept that it has an effect .. and that that effect needs to be countered by the workers movement.

However that sentance i qouted above finishes " ...that have been imposed on that country by the US." apart from the idea that neoliberalism is a purely US thing which is nonsense, this appears to suggest that nino belives that migration is a totally PUSH process. I tried to get debate on this in one of my threads. Clearly if we accept and understand neo liberalism and that its policies cause PUSH in many poor countries, we must also accept that they will operate to casue PULL in others, namely UKinc.

You edited out the "by the US"? Why? It's a crucial part of the statement.

 

[durruti02]

This is my OP

And this is your version...see the difference? No, you wouldn't; you're blind.

Of course you edited out the "by the US". I wonder why?

ditto

In the OP nino admits .. "Economic migration is caused by the effect of neo-liberal economic policies .... " that migration is happenning and that it is caused by neo liberalism .. he must then also accept that it has an effect .. and that that effect needs to be countered by the workers movement.

However that sentance i qouted above finishes " ...that have been imposed on that country by the US." apart from the idea that neoliberalism is a purely US thing which is nonsense, this appears to suggest that nino belives that migration is a totally PUSH process. I tried to get debate on this in one of my threads. Clearly if we accept and understand neo liberalism and that its policies cause PUSH in many poor countries, we must also accept that they will operate to casue PULL in others, namely UKinc.

 

[durruti02]

You edited out the "by the US"? Why? It's a crucial part of the statement.

but its there in black and white .. and i critices it for somehow suggesting it is not international but purely US led

 

[nino_savatte]

but its there in black and white .. and i critices it for somehow suggesting it is not international but purely US led

Okay, which country's corporations dominate the world's markets? Which country dumps its cheaper commodities onto the markets of other countries which, in turn, creates a situation where local farmers cannot sell their produce because US agro-businesses have priced them out of the market.

There is an impressive list of examples where this has happened.

 

[Knotted]

That's right, Knotted, you're perfect and you never put a foot wrong. Of course you don't know what I'm talking about because it suits you to play the innocent.

I make plenty of mistakes. I'm not however a stark raving lunatic who never admits it. In fact I'm pretty damn quick at correcting my errors.

No I don't know what you talk about. It suits you because you don't know what you talk about either. That way you don't have to explain yourself.

But really who the fuck cares??!!! Ignorance is no crime. You're not going to get banged up. Why the pretence?

Vous jouez la violon d'Ingres encore. You misrepresent my posts, we're even.

Speak English you pretentious arse. I couldn't care a less about you being even. I couldn't care a less if you do read my posts or not, just don't pretend you do when you don't.

 

[Knotted]

That's right, Knotted, you're perfect and you never put a foot wrong. Of course you don't know what I'm talking about because it suits you to play the innocent.

I make plenty of mistakes. I'm not however a stark raving lunatic who never admits it. In fact I'm pretty damn quick at correcting my errors.

No I don't know what you talk about. It suits you because you don't know what you talk about either. That way you don't have to explain yourself.

But really who the fuck cares??!!! Ignorance is no crime. You're not going to get banged up. Why the pretence?

Vous jouez la violon d'Ingres encore. You misrepresent my posts, we're even.

Speak English you pretentious arse. I couldn't care a less about you being even. I couldn't care a less if you do read my posts or not, just don't pretend you do when you don't.

 

[nino_savatte]

I make plenty of mistakes. I'm not however a stark raving lunatic who never admits it. In fact I'm pretty damn quick at correcting my errors.

No I don't know what you talk about. It suits you because you don't know what you talk about either. That way you don't have to explain yourself.

But really who the fuck cares??!!! Ignorance is no crime. You're not going to get banged up. Why the pretence?



Speak English you pretentious arse. I couldn't care a less about you being even. I couldn't care a less if you do read my posts or not, just don't pretend you do when you don't.

You not only misrepresent my posts and lie, you're a bit of a bully.

In fact I'm pretty damn quick at correcting my errors.

Bullshit.

Oh and I'd have thought that the word "violon" was fairly easy to translate.

 

[Lock&Light]

Oh and I'd have thought that the word "violon" was fairly easy to translate.

What outrageous pretentiousness you spout, nino!

 

[nino_savatte]

What outrageous pretentiousness you spout, nino!

You're so predictable and, once, again, ever the gutless wonder, you hang on the coattails of another to get your snipe in.

What utter shite you spout, Schlock.

 

[durruti02]

Okay, which country's corporations dominate the world's markets? Which country dumps its cheaper commodities onto the markets of other countries which, in turn, creates a situation where local farmers cannot sell their produce because US agro-businesses have priced them out of the market.

There is an impressive list of examples where this has happened.

hey you can'y just pretend you didn't accuse me of editing out something .. i didn't .. apology please

i agree that the US capitalism/neo imperialism is a major issue .. it is the major part of neo liberalism ... this is undisputed .. my point was neo liberalism is international not purely US

 

[nino_savatte]

hey you can'y just pretend you didn't accuse me of editing out something .. i didn't .. apology please

i agree that the US capitalism/neo imperialism is a major issue .. it is the major part of neo liberalism ... this is undisputed .. my point was neo liberalism is international not purely US

You did and you took what I'd typed out of context. It is pretty typical of your style. On another thread, you cut an pasted beckyp's shite into a quote of mine.

The world's economy is dominated by US corporations, perhaps that has escaped your attention?

 

[Knotted]

Bullshit.

No it isn't, you projecting ninny. I ALWAYS correct myself. Do you want me to post up examples?

Shall I let you into a secret? No-one ono these boards has ever taken advantage of the fact that I make mistakes and that I correct them. Its true. This is because posters on here are adults. Its amazing, you wouldn't believe it I'm sure. But its true. They won't hunt you down and burn you. Its extraodinary, but its a fact. Have a go yourself. Correct an error. It won't hurt. It won't even sting. You might even like it.

 

[nino_savatte]

No it isn't, you projecting ninny. I ALWAYS correct myself. Do you want me to post up examples?

Shall I let you into a secret? No-one ono these boards has ever taken advantage of the fact that I make mistakes and that I correct them. Its true. This is because posters on here are adults. Its amazing, you wouldn't believe it I'm sure. But its true. They won't hunt you down and burn you. Its extraodinary, but its a fact. Have a go yourself. Correct an error. It won't hurt. It won't even sting. You might even like it.

You always misrepresent my posts, so I take anything that you say with several kilos of salt, bubba.

You understand what is meant by the word "smear", don't you?

 

[durruti02]

You did and you took what I'd typed out of context. It is pretty typical of your style. On another thread, you cut an pasted beckyp's shite into a quote of mine.

The world's economy is dominated by US corporations, perhaps that has escaped your attention?

nino i qouted you! of course i took a sentance out .. thats what qoutes are!! the full qoute/pragrah was/is seconds away .. this does not count as misqouting .. sorrry but it does not .. i also did NOT deliberately or malicously cut and paste beckyp's qoute into your post .. sorry that is just not where i am at mate .. tbh i do not even know to what you are referring

and again why so agressive? of course i know about american corporations .. i was simply making the point that i believe that neoliberalism is not unique to the US as i think you were suggesting

look i have said it on another thread but will repeat here .. please you, knotted LnL becky .. whoever .. please can we stop the tit for tat .. it does nothing for the debate .. if people do not want to debate they should leave the threads

 

[Knotted]

look i have said it on another thread but will repeat here .. please you, knotted LnL becky .. whoever .. please can we stop the tit for tat .. it does nothing for the debate .. if people do not want to debate they should leave the threads

OK, consider me out of the debate then.

 

[nino_savatte]

nino i qouted you! of course i took a sentance out .. thats what qoutes are!! the full qoute/pragrah was/is seconds away .. this does not count as misqouting .. sorrry but it does not .. i also did NOT deliberately or malicously cut and paste beckyp's qoute into your post .. sorry that is just not where i am at mate ..

and again why so agressive? of course i know about american corporations .. i was simply making the point that i believe that neoliberalism is not unique to the US as i think you were suggesting

look i have said it on another thread but will repeat here .. please you, knotted LnL becky .. whoever .. please can we stop the tit for tat .. it does nothing for the debate .. if people do not want to debate they should leave the threads

1. You added parts of beckyp's post to the bit of text that you had quoted. That is dishonest. Why do you ascribe words to me that I did not type? of course, you " do not even know to what you are referring". You do a very good job at playing the innocent. Shall I go and find the post?

2. It's easy to accuse me of "aggression", that way you can claim the moral high ground but it's a shabby con trick. You're quite aggressive yourself. For instance, you don't take too kindly to people asking you for evidence.

 

[durruti02]

yes please ... you have accused me of decit so yes you have to prove .. i have no recollection of this ... equally you accused me of editing out something which i blatently had not done .. and i have proved you were wrong .. yet no apology when i point it out ..

and when have i ever reacted agressively to being asked for evidence!!

 

[durruti02]

OK, consider me out of the debate then.

thats not good is it! i was hoping we could continue but without tit for tat .. but then i started again .. its sad when you feel you have to replly to accusations rather than content .. is that ninos agenda???

 

[Lock&Light]

.. is that ninos agenda???

Yes.

 

[becky p]

yes please ... you have accused me of decit so yes you have to prove .. i have no recollection of this ... equally you accused me of editing out something which i blatently had not done .. and i have proved you were wrong .. yet no apology when i point it out ..

and when have i ever reacted agressively to being asked for evidence!!

If you do get an apology from nino,can i be the first to send you a cheque for £1million.

 

[Knotted]

thats not good is it! i was hoping we could continue but without tit for tat .. but then i started again .. its sad when you feel you have to replly to accusations rather than content .. is that ninos agenda???

Well I've said pretty much all I can say on immigration. I might reply to any serious points if they are made, but that seems unlikely. I've got better things to do than listen to nino's wild accusations. I think this thread should be allowed to die.

 

[nino_savatte]

Yes.

What agenda, shithead?

Your agenda is to follow people around the boards and make snide remarks. You never have anything to say and you're a thread disrupter. Why you haven't been banned for any of this is anyone's guess.

 

[nino_savatte]

Well I've said pretty much all I can say on immigration. I might reply to any serious points if they are made, but that seems unlikely. I've got better things to do than listen to nino's wild accusations. I think this thread should be allowed to die.

"Wild accusations"? You're an arrogant cock, aren't you? Where have you actually made a proper contribution? You haven't. Your posts on this thread have consisted of snide remarks and smears.

You had the cheek to moan about a link to an RCG website that I posted but then, you linked to the same website. You're a hypocrite and you want it all your own way. You and your fellow travellers monopolise this forum with your views on immigration and you get abusive when anyone comes along to challenge you.

You lot are too defensive for your own good. Go on, piss off and take your mad ideas with you.

 

[nino_savatte]

yes please ... you have accused me of decit so yes you have to prove .. i have no recollection of this ... equally you accused me of editing out something which i blatently had not done .. and i have proved you were wrong .. yet no apology when i point it out ..

and when have i ever reacted agressively to being asked for evidence!!

What is "decit"? No you have no "recollection" because it wouldn't suit you. You're far to arrogant to admit to any wrongdoing....that's what other people do.

You cut and pasted some of beckyp's post into a quote from me and you have the cheek to say that you haven't?

 

[Knotted]

The piece nino quoted in post 481 is from Fight Racism! Fight Imperialism, the paper of the Revolutionary Communist Group.

I've noted in the past that they have shifted their analysis on immigration, and this piece reflects that shift.



As I said before there is a broad convergence in the left on this question, not divergence. If the RCG, who have long campaigned against immigration controls, can recognise the negative impacts of immigration then where does this leave groups like the SWP and Workers Power who simply plough on with 30 year old rhetoric?

OK, I'll bump this "moan about a link to an RCG website". If anybody can see what nino is wittering on about please tell me. Otherwise that's the last you'll be hearing from me on this thread.

 

[Lock&Light]

"Wild accusations"? You're an arrogant cock, aren't you? Where have you actually made a proper contribution? You haven't. Your posts on this thread have consisted of snide remarks and smears.

You had the cheek to moan about a link to an RCG website that I posted but then, you linked to the same website. You're a hypocrite and you want it all your own way. You and your fellow travellers monopolise this forum with your views on immigration and you get abusive when anyone comes along to challenge you.

You lot are too defensive for your own good. Go on, piss off and take your mad ideas with you.

Nino's latest witterings, Knotted.

 

[nino_savatte]

OK, I'll bump this "moan about a link to an RCG website". If anybody can see what nino is wittering on about please tell me. Otherwise that's the last you'll be hearing from me on this thread.

Ah, the auld "let's play the innocent" schtick.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nino's latest witterings, Knotted.

Ah,the usual "let's hang on someone else's coattails" schtick from Urban's premier schlemiel.