third position fascism
- Thread starter frogwoman
- Start date
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, and I'm new here, and I only casually mentioned it as a possible discussion point and was swiftly accused of being racist and then boring. Just as well I didn't start it.
Apologies for bringing it up then, and thanks for mentioning it's been discussed frogwoman, I'll have a look for those threads.
That might have been a decent thing for someone to have mentioned straight off rather than throwing accusations and insults around. Oh well, and people wonder why the left is a bit unapproachable and shit.
Apologies for bringing it up then, and thanks for mentioning it's been discussed frogwoman, I'll have a look for those threads.
That might have been a decent thing for someone to have mentioned straight off rather than throwing accusations and insults around. Oh well, and people wonder why the left is a bit unapproachable and shit.
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frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Tbh its worth discussing militant jihadism is defo in the ascendancy for a few reasons. It's just that discussions about if theres anything unique about islam tend not to go anywhere.. whats worth discussing is the social conditions within muslim countries / muslim communities within the west that lend themselves to these loons finding a more fertile audience than say wirathu would if he encouraged buddhists to blow themselves up over here
Yes, singling out Islam as a particularly pernicious repository of such tendencies does indeed make you a racist. Not consciously, but objectively.
Furthermore, at an historical juncture where the West is engaged in a new wave of neo-imperialist adventures against primarily Muslim powers, it's not difficult to see the ideological uses of anti-Islamic discourse. Thus you are also an unwitting agent of neo-colonialism.
I suggest that you direct your hostility against a more appropriate target. Capitalism is the true source of evil in today's world. If you want to criticize something, criticize that.
Welcome to Urban. You'll soon get used to it.
malatesta32
Not Serb. No, Really!
it's urban75 and absolutely fine to call people c***s apparently.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Pretty gob smackingly patronizing, reading things that weren't there into what I've written, telling me I'm both a racist (objectively no less!) and an unwitting agent of neo-colonialism, assuming what I do with the vast majority of my political activity, making the very odd point that capitalism is the 'true source of evil' (what are you, some kind of religious moral leftie?), and also trying to limit and artifically boundary any discussion of what's going on in the world today (how exactly can we discuss what's going on without critically examining every aspect of power and politics I'm not sure, do you sound a klaxon when someone discusses something that's not the one true evil?), that was an incredible piece of writing all squeezed into a few lines.
You fucking dull, full-of-yourself, slightly delusional saddo phildwyer, I bet you're a bundle of laughs to have a pint with.
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ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Actually... yes, he is.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
You know when you've been dwyered.
ManchesterBeth
Well-Known Member
These aren't exclusive to religion and predate monotheism, as well as being tolerated by secular theology.
ManchesterBeth
Well-Known Member
Leftism is a type of bourgeois secular theology that relies upon mystification. Dwyer's a leftist. Objectively speaking leftism isn't revolutionary. I wouldn't waste your time with it.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
And I thought Dwyer talked bollocks, but you take the cake. Care to name something that isn't "bourgeois secular theology"? Or something that is revolutionary, perhaps?
Because otherwise your view would seem to constitute little more than self-defeating fatalism in which another world isn't possible. Which strikes me as exactly the kind of thing the ruling classes want. The last thing they want is for the proles to get it into their heads that there is an alternative.
ManchesterBeth
Well-Known Member
You do realise that left communists, anarcho-communists, some autonomists, and ultra-leftists etc virulently denounce leftism, don't you?
Leftism is an ideology of capitalism. Be that social democracy, or various state socialisms. Revolutionaries today are not leftists.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Leftism isn't an ideology, it's a cluster of ideologies. Did left communism spring forth fully formed out of the ether? Or did it arise partly out of criticism and/or other derivations of other leftist ideologies?
ManchesterBeth
Well-Known Member
Leftism as a whole is an ideology. There are tendencies, yes. Trotskyism, Maoism, Social democracy, democratic self-management, but it's not an anti-politics of negation but a politics of accommodation. Lenin and co. couldn't escape from the leftism rampant in the workers movement and Marxism's marriage with social democracy, but that's neither here nor there.
The left communists went beyond social democracy and its derivations. Criticism does not equate to being a part of said ideology. That way you could argue that the french Nouvelle droite is part of the left, because it uses bastardised left concepts to criticise the vulgar far right. The left communist milieu (certainly not the Bordiguists who are very specific) would for instance see support to national liberation struggles, antifa, and participation in bourgeois parliaments as counter revolutionary today. That's not something you can claim for leftism.
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Going back to CasaPound - here's a demonstration of how it's on a whole different level than the dregs we have over here. And yes, this was published on the site of the project that Stephen O' Malley from Sunn O))) was involved with.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Is that link OK? Or is it one of their sites? If so I don't think I'll be clicking on it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It's a link to a classic key publishing/propaganda group in the third positionist/new right tradition.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
These are the brains of the operation, are they? Should be like taking candy from a fish, or shooting babies in a barrel.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Or asbestos off a barn roof
Buckaroo
Donkey piss and tractors
You couldn't hit an asbestos barn door with "an historical juncture where the West is engaged in a new wave of neo-imperialist adventures against primarily Muslim powers." You just couldn't.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
I tell you what, I don't remember the questions on Bullseye being this hard
Libertad
Sparking up a rollie in the Reichstag
Let's have a look at what you could've won.
petee
no gods, no malarkey
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Still, you still got one CasaPound, two CasaPound, three CasaPound - I'll see you after the break - four CasaPound, five CasaPound...
Flavour
hang the bankers
Can't speak for Rome as I don't know it very well but I can tell you that for
t CasaPound/similar event (there are several other groups with the same basic ideology, like Gioventù Nazionale and Identitari Sociali Nazionali) in Turin and in Milan, recent attempts by them to organize and hold marches/demos have been in almost every instance hindered by the much larger antifa turnout. They have no foothold here. In Turin they have one pub, that's about it. There is a fash squat too but I don't think it's Casa Pound. It's incredible however, how much the local rag (turin's equivalent of the manchester evening news) sides with the fash and even gives voice to representatives of CasaPound, complaining about antifa graffiti and what not.
t CasaPound/similar event (there are several other groups with the same basic ideology, like Gioventù Nazionale and Identitari Sociali Nazionali) in Turin and in Milan, recent attempts by them to organize and hold marches/demos have been in almost every instance hindered by the much larger antifa turnout. They have no foothold here. In Turin they have one pub, that's about it. There is a fash squat too but I don't think it's Casa Pound. It's incredible however, how much the local rag (turin's equivalent of the manchester evening news) sides with the fash and even gives voice to representatives of CasaPound, complaining about antifa graffiti and what not.
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Dammit! I quite like what I've heard from Sunn O))). Was on my list of bands to listen more to. What the fuck is it with that sort of music and dodgy politics?
ItWillNeverWork
Messy Crimbobs, fellow humans.
Also, why are that sort always pagan? Is it just a fashion thing amongst these fuckwits?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
There's been a large current in neo-pagansim - for at least the last 30 years - toward hard rightism. Various Euro-right philosophers have rhapsodised about pre-Christian cultures and their values, and in the US "Nordic" and "Germanic" strains of neo-paganism have long been replete with white supremacists. It boils down to myths of cultural purity - myths which, if you read actual history, you soon find to be unsubstantiated by culturally-untidy fact.
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