third position fascism

[Flavour]

also interesting was the Forconi movement which basically came out of nowhere, held a highly successful one-day national strike across most of Italy (especially here in Torino) and then largely disappeared from view and fairly quickly... but it was a weird day, to see so many demonstrators clogging up the central square waving the Italian flag. There's certainly a huge current of latent fascism beneath the surface in contemporary Italy which can be brought to the surface using the right sequence of secret codes. Luckily, there's a fairly substantial support/sympathy for Anarchism too, at least compared to the UK

A victory for the anti-3rd fascists - and we didn't even have to do anything!

The Forconi "movement", yeah, that one who held the big strikes in December 2013 (see here for more details: http://strugglesinitaly.wordpress.com/2013/12/15/en-forconi-pitchfork-protest-2/) has officially dissolved itself after a protest in Turin this weekend drew less than 10 people! HA!

http://www.lastampa.it/2014/12/06/c...lle-strade-rzguhBHlmRyl1VWACTjVTJ/pagina.html

I translate:

Goodbye, Forconi! The flop of a protest that was supposed to start on Friday and continue until Tuesday has prompted the organizers to give up all efforts to struggle that they had announced through the distribution of 70,000 leaflets across the province of Turin. Yesterday there were less than 10 protesters, in Rivoli and Pinerolo not a single person turned up. For this reason the organizers confirmed to the cops that the protest was over, a protest which had mobilized thousands of people just last year.

Of course, the fash are active at the highest levels of government both regional and national but at least here, they have failed to build on a quite surprising success they had last year and returned to their dingy caves. They'll be back though.

 

[butchersapron]

To go back to my post above about CasaPound and what their high-concept talk actually means on the ground:

On Sunday 18 January, around 6pm, a group of about 50 fascists (mostly from CasaPound) attacked activists from Cremona’s Dordoni social centre. The attack on seven or eight activists was launched by around ten people, and very soon bolstered by 40 more. Emilio, one of the activists and someone very well known in Cremona, was beaten with a bar and then kicked in the face and head as he was lying on the ground.

The attack appears to have been prepared in advance, taking advantage of a football match to bring together fascists from Parma, Brescia and other towns with those from Cremona. Emilio is now in a very serious condition and his life is in danger. Dordoni’s activists have made a complaint that the fascists were merely identified by the police and then released but that the activists who were defending Dordoni were charged.

Anti-fascists from Cremona and from all over Italy have called for a national anti-fascist demonstration in Cremona on 24 January, and for solidarity demonstrations in many different cities.

This episode is not isolated: there have been many different attacks led by CasaPound or other far-right movements over the last few months. In September, in Naples, for example, a high school student was beaten by some far-right individuals because he was wearing an anti-fascist t-shirt. In Rome, in November, a group of far-right militants used bars and sticks to attack supporters of Ardita San Paolo football team.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This isn't funny. Yesterday, I happened to pass by the site of the Kaiser William Institute for Anthropology. . . there's a post-war plaque condemning the crimes committed in the name of German anthropology during the war. . .

I've just been reading Andre Pichot's "The Pure Society", which doesn't have much good to speak of the Institute (or its' sister Institute for Biology in Munich).

 

[Idris2002]

I've just been reading Andre Pichot's "The Pure Society", which doesn't have much good to speak of the Institute (or its' sister Institute for Biology in Munich).

On that occasion I was actually with a group from the puzzle palace where I work, or "work". . . our boss was with us and when we came to that plaque he gave us an impromptu speech on what "the pure society" meant in practice, especially for the people who wore stripy uniforms. . .

 

[butchersapron]

See the stuff on Elsässer below and the evolution of the anti-german left into new nationalist/anti-imperialist far-right/pegida-friendly figurehead

Germany’s New Far Right

Elsässer’s political biography is a fascinating illustration of how the new far-right manages to incorporate elements of the “Left” as part of a broader attempt at coalescing a new “conformist rebellion.” Previously a vocational school teacher in Stuttgart, Elsässer first achieved prominence on the political stage as a member of the Maoist Kommunistischer Bund in 1990 during the demonstrations that led to the dissolution of Germany Democratic Republic.

In an article for the KB’s newspaper Arbeiterkampf titled “Why the Left has to be Anti-German,” Elsässer simultaneously articulated the fears of the West German radical left concerning the possible reemergence of a unified Germany as a great power, while christening what would, over the course of the next decade, emerge as a distinct tendency within the German radical left itself.

When the Second Intifada broke out in September 2000, Elsässer began to regard Israeli prime minister candidate Ariel Sharon as a sort of Levantine Slobodan Milošević, a beleaguered “anti-fascist” head of state falling victim to a hegemonic human rights imperialism under German leadership. However, after the reassertion of American global hegemony during the 2001 Afghan War, and then the Iraq War, which prompted opposition from France and Germany under the respective leadership of Jacques Chirac and Gerhard Schröder, Elsässer was compelled to fundamentally recalibrate his theories. Germany, after all, despite its stature within the European Union, was revealed to be a second-tier regional power, wavering between trans-Atlanticism and renewed bids to constitute a rival “great power.”

Elsässer began publishing books and articles arguing for the constitution of a “Berlin-Paris-Moscow axis” in opposition to Washington. After a series of explicitly nationalist interventions got him booted, successively, from pretty much every major left-wing publication of note, Elsässer started Compact, thus creating a coherent ideological center for a new type of far-right politics: resolutely German nationalist, explicitly adopting traditional far-right tropes against “finance capital,” positing the formation of a “Eurasian” power axis as a counterpole to the United States, and resolutely anti-immigrant in terms of domestic policy while supporting “anti-imperialist” countries such as Iran or Syria abroad.

 

[J Ed]

See the stuff on Elsässer below and the evolution of the anti-german left into new nationalist/anti-imperialist far-right/pegida-friendly figurehead

Germany’s New Far Right

Over the course of the reunification, the first Gulf War, the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the subsequent wars against Afghanistan and Iraq, Southern European guest workers were racially and culturally constituted as “Muslims.”

Good read. I also can't help but feel that these attitudes are also spilling over into the state's justification of its treatment of 'peripheral' European countries.

 

[frogwoman]

Thats a great piece.

 

[butchersapron]

Here's a really odd one - Guardian columnist, autonomist-lite, part of the commentariat, mate of bifo, goldsmiths, verso employee etc has a piece here on Ernst Jünger - long time central to third positionism/german equivalent to Evola - pimping the new collection of his first positionist nonsense published by Telos (Telos used to be a very important journal and publishers for hegelian marxism and frankfurt shcool stuff in the early 70s to late 80s that has now become the same for the european new right/third postionists) concluding that:

And here he is pimping Spengler. Pretty clearly in the grip of the 20s + 30s german conservative revolution, the stuff that the french new right are largely ripping off.

 

[frogwoman]

Following on from this, does anyone know if there were any left wing groups that supported the nazis?

I don't mean strasserites, I mean left wingers who supported fascism on the basis that it was "anti-imperialist" or opposed to british and western interests, similar to what the sparts think about isis?

 

[Pickman's model]

t

Following on from this, does anyone know if there were any left wing groups that supported the nazis?

I don't mean strasserites, I mean left wingers who supported fascism on the basis that it was "anti-imperialist" or opposed to british and western interests, similar to what the sparts think about isis?

there are loons of every stripe out there

 

[LDC]

Following on from this, does anyone know if there were any left wing groups that supported the nazis?

I don't mean strasserites, I mean left wingers who supported fascism on the basis that it was "anti-imperialist" or opposed to british and western interests, similar to what the sparts think about isis?

Not sure, but IMO the left has got significantly worse (in many ways, but I mean specific to its choice of 'allies') in the last 40-50 years so there probably weren't as many fucked up ideas back then as there are now.

On that note I was actually thinking about starting a thread about tolerance/uncritical acceptance for some of the dodgy aspects of Islam as well as discussing IS apologists amongst the left currently...

LDC

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Didn't the German Communist Party (the KPD one) hold joint meetings and debates with NSDAP at one point?

 

[malatesta32]

On that note I was actually thinking about starting a thread about tolerance/uncritical acceptance for some of the dodgy aspects of Islam as well as discussing IS apologists amongst the left currently...LDC

do so then we can discuss this as well:
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-0619-Operation-Race-Riot#.VbeL2flViko

 

[Casually Red]

do so then we can discuss this as well:
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/a-0619-Operation-Race-Riot#.VbeL2flViko

I see Dowson gets a prominent mention there .

http://loyalistsagainstdemocracy.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/jimll-fix-it.html

 

[mk12]

Didn't the German Communist Party (the KPD one) hold joint meetings and debates with NSDAP at one point?

I think Karl Radek was a proponent of this type of activity in the early 1920s. Also, they supported the Berlin transport strike in the early 1930s, so they probably worked alongside socialists and communists then? There was an article by Tim Mason (iirc) about nazi factory councils or something similar.

I have an inkling that butchersapron will know more about this stuff.

ETA: there is an article here about this kind of thing. I'm not convinced about some of the references though...

http://www.engageonline.org.uk/journal/index.php?journal_id=10&article_id=35

 

[Casually Red]

I think Karl Radek was a proponent of this type of activity in the early 1920s. Also, they supported the Berlin transport strike in the early 1930s, so they probably worked alongside socialists and communists then? There was an article by Tim Mason (iirc) about nazi factory councils or something similar.

I have an inkling that butchersapron will know more about this stuff.

ETA: there is an article here about this kind of thing. I'm not convinced about some of the references though...

http://www.engageonline.org.uk/journal/index.php?journal_id=10&article_id=35

I remember once seeing a picture of an early hitler in the guard of honour at the funeral of a killed Jewish socialist . I'll try to remember we're I seen it and dig out the background .

 

[phildwyer]

On that note I was actually thinking about starting a thread about tolerance/uncritical acceptance for some of the dodgy aspects of Islam

What are the "dodgy aspects of Islam?"

 

[Greebo]

What are the "dodgy aspects of Islam?"

I suspect that they'll turn out to be more or less the same as the dodgier aspects of Christianity ie. bad behaviour excused by twisting something from a sacred text.

 

[phildwyer]

I suspect that they'll turn out to be more or less the same as the dodgier aspects of Christianity ie. bad behaviour excused by twisting something from a sacred text.

If so, why single out Islam?

 

[Greebo]

If so, why single out Islam?

This is before my second mug of tea, so I'll say racism or at least xenophobia.

 

[phildwyer]

This is before my second mug of tea, so I'll say racism or at least xenophobia.

I've just had my third cup of coffee, so I'll resist judging until we've heard an explanation. Doesn't look good though.

 

[LDC]

Single out Islam? Does it really need explaining to you why discussing the relationship between some elements of the left and some elements of the Muslim 'community' (for want of a better word) might bear more interest and relevance for radicals than discussing the relationship between the left and other religions at the moment? And are you suggesting that any level of discussion around that is racist or xenophobic?

 

[phildwyer]

Single out Islam? Does it really need explaining to you why discussing the relationship between some elements of the left and some elements of the Muslim 'community' (for want of a better word) might bear more interest and relevance for radicals than discussing the relationship between the left and other religions at the moment? And are you suggesting that any level of discussion around that is racist or xenophobic?

Yes, and definitely yes.

I'd also like you to explain what you mean by "the dodgy aspects of Islam."

 

[phildwyer]

dp

 

[phildwyer]

tp

 

[LDC]

Homophobia, patriarchy, racism, xenophobia... the usual collection of things that all/most religions have within them in some way. Does even mentioning that these exist within some parts of the Muslim religious community make me a racist? That's a serious question by the way. Surely we should be able to discuss these things so people can make their mind up without being denounced?

 

[Pickman's model]

Homophobia, patriarchy, racism, xenophobia... the usual collection of things that all/most religions have within them in some way. Does even mentioning that these exist within some parts of the Muslim religious community make me a racist? That's a serious question by the way. Surely we should be able to discuss these things so people can make their mind up without being denounced?

given that these exist in some parts of every community i don't know why you singled out our muslim brothers and sisters, i really don't.

 

[LDC]

Because politically at the moment we're in a situation where it's particularly pertinent globally? It gets discussed about other religions, so not sure why it might be off limits in the Muslim religion?

Surely as a consequence of what is happening in the world at the moment who and why (and why not) leftists might make allegiances with, and on what grounds they do so is OK to discuss. And in discussing that surely some level of debate around how we deal with working with some people whose views don't chime with ours exactly is acceptable?

Like it might be sorted for you all on here, but others of us haven't made their mind up have they? Are we just supposed to shout 'racist' at anyone that even raises it as a topic worthy of discussion? Does that include the Kurdish leftists I know who have concerns around how some elements of the UK left seem to be acting almost as apologists for some pretty reactionary religious beliefs sometimes?

 

[Pickman's model]

Because politically at the moment we're in a situation where it's particularly pertinent globally? It gets discussed about other religions, so not sure why it might be off limits in the Muslim religion?

Surely as a consequence of what is happening in the world at the moment who and why (and why not) leftists might make allegiances with, and on what grounds they do so is OK to discuss. And in discussing that surely some level of debate around how we deal with working with some people whose views don't chime with ours exactly is acceptable?

Like it might be sorted for you all on here, but others of us haven't made their mind up have they? Are we just supposed to shout 'racist' at anyone that even raises it as a topic worthy of discussion? Does that include the Kurdish leftists I know who have concerns around how some elements of the UK left seem to be acting almost as apologists for some pretty reactionary religious beliefs sometimes?

it's just it gets discussed more about muslims than it does about say shinto or animism. after more than a decade of this it is beginning to pall. are you racist? probably not. are you boring? a resounding yes.

 

[LDC]

Yes, I wonder why on earth people might be more interested in discussing the left's relationship with Islam rather than Shinto religion?

And, well, thanks. That's a nice accusation to throw at someone. Talk about being dismissive of people not as sure as you are with being able to trot out a nice neat position.