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third position fascism

It is terrifyingly slick!....Do you think that it is particular to Italy? i.e the whole social centre movement, that isn't easily transferable to other countries?

Italy has a few special circs that obvs have influenced how CP had panned out. Notably the continued legitimacy of fascism and the whole structures of autogestione that the left built.

Other places have different stuff that an equiv of CP could use in a similar manner perhaps.
 
tbh the @ social centres thing people tried in london some years ago, the short life of the centres ultimately killed it as so much work was done to make the places vaguely habitable and after a certain number of times of finding, opening and cleaning places people just called it a day. i think things like the number of activists, the money available, rent - or squatting laws, etc -- administrative or bureaucratic limiters -- set boundaries to what can be done. there seems to be something in the culture on the continent which allows some forms of activity to flourish, and these forms can't necessarily be easily transplanted to the uk.
aye, I was referring specifically to the social centre movement in Italy, which seems quite inherent across political spectrums in Italy
 
Historically, there's three main periods/areas of interest that still have intellectual and social influence today. After 1917 and throughout the 20s in Germany and Russia and the Social Republic of Italy after 1943

I'd probably look further back in the history of Italian fascism. Mussolini always stated that Lenin was the politician that he most admired and by the mid-1920s fascist theorists were looking at the USSR and saying, Actually, they are quite like us really. Plus there was always an intellectual strand to this movement, see Aeropittura. It's interesting to listen to Mussolini's speeches where he rallies against "bourgeois conformity" (of course, while being in at one with the Catholic church and the bourgeoisie)
 
I wasn't saying that it didn't exist before then, it clearly did, i could have talked about the crossover with syndicalism and all sorts. But i wasn't seeking its orgins, i was pointing out where the third positionists of today take their main inspiration from.
 
Survey by Demos of online CasaPound supporters.
One of the most difficult to classify of these groups is the neo-fascist political and cultural movement CasaPound. CasaPound emphasizes modes of direct activism (for example, organising street protests, demonstrative actions, political campaigns and street marches) over more formal methods of political engagement. Unlike other far-right movements and parties in Europe for which immigration is the key issue, CasaPound’s policy positions cover a range of economic and social areas with its primary concern being the “housing right” for Italian citizens.

This report presents the results of a survey of Facebook fans of CasaPound. It includes data on who they are, what they think, and what motivates them to shift from virtual to real-world activism. It also compares them with other similar parties in Western Europe, shedding light on their growing online support, and the relationship between their online and offline activities.

http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/reports/populism-europe-casapound-italy
 
It is terrifyingly slick!....Do you think that it is particular to Italy? i.e the whole social centre movement, that isn't easily transferable to other countries?
There's def local characteristics that lend themselves to this stuff, both in forms of organising and in the political traditions that were never definitively beaten in italy - despite the adoption of a formally anti-fascist constitution. Germany used to have a similar tradition in the 60s which led to the RAF and that anti-imperialist stuff, but i can't see those traditions taken root here. Conditions have been so different for so long, that they don't feel natural.
 
32 pages! Can you summarise it in a paragraph for us? :D

Well, I'm still reading it right now ...

Gist that I'm getting is (possibly due to the special conditions mentioned at the top of the page) their supporters are more likely to be educated and more likely to emphasise economic issues than racial purity or the dangers of 'creeping sharia' etc.

See e.g.
When asked to rank their top two social and political concerns from a list of 18 current issues, the most common responses from CasaPound Facebook supporters were about the economy and immigration. They were much more likely than the average PPAM supporter to be concerned about the economic situation (32 per cent vs 16 per cent), unemployment (24 per cent vs 13 per cent) and corruption (12 per cent vs 4 per cent) (table 5). They were also far less likely than the average PPAM supporter to be concerned with Islamic extremism (5 per cent vs 24 per cent). The fact that economic issues rank comparatively highly and Islamic extremism so lowly among the concerns of CasaPound supporters distinguishes them from the supporters of similar parties across Western Europe.
(source above)
 
I wasn't saying that it didn't exist before then, it clearly did, i could have talked about the crossover with syndicalism and all sorts. But i wasn't seeking its orgins, i was pointing out where the third positionists of today take their main inspiration from.

okay
 
It is terrifyingly slick!....Do you think that it is particular to Italy? i.e the whole social centre movement, that isn't easily transferable to other countries?

slick and incredibly well organised, managed, maintained and supported. If you look at italy's biggest and most popular social cente Leoncavello the level of participation was extraordinary. They had 100,000 people a year coming through their doors, several full time paid workers along with hundreds of committed volunteers, even got one member elected onto the local council. Generally it's the model that casa pound adopted - a movement of means coupled with a rich cultural base (public enemy played there when they toured italy instead of a normal concert venue) and regular political activities (demos, campaigns etc), built into the community.

Whether that's specific to Italy, or europe in general, this desire to create alternative and sustainable forms of political engagement outside the traditional structures of power i don't know, but as a form of autonomous political and social organising it's hard to beat.
 
slick and incredibly well organised, managed, maintained and supported. If you look at italy's biggest and most popular social cente Leoncavello the level of participation was extraordinary. They had 100,000 people a year coming through their doors, several full time paid workers along with hundreds of committed volunteers, even got one member elected onto the local council. Generally it's the model that casa pound adopted - a movement of means coupled with a rich cultural base (public enemy played there when they toured italy instead of a normal concert venue) and regular political activities (demos, campaigns etc), built into the community.

Whether that's specific to Italy, or europe in general, this desire to create alternative and sustainable forms of political engagement outside the traditional structures of power i don't know, but as a form of autonomous political and social organising it's hard to beat.

The Italian social centres seem more organised, rooted and widespread than others I've seen elsewhere. Though most of Europe has them. But Italian politics lends itself to this. As does the general Italian attitude to the state.

You could look at places like say Germany or the Netherlands and their history of political squats, but in font see much chance (yet) of the fash being able to replicate these structures. And that's down to the position of the fash in society, Italy had (and still has) the successor parties to Mussolini as legit parties, even to the point if being part of govt, Germany outlaws far-right parties. Different conditions allow and enable different strategies innit?
 
<snip>

The key thing is the ease with which the above can be portrayed as progressive, as left-wing. And how well thought out this stuff is. It's amazingly impressive

<snip>
Very helpful stuff, thanks.

Got to say, apart from the stuff about the 'strong state' and the enthusiasm for the military (from the Demos paper) these guys sound like they'd have a lot in common politically with some people in the Occupy movement.
 
Third Positionists always summed up for me by the ITPer caught by some AFA folk only to start wailing "don't hit me! I'm a Strasserite"

The terminology in this area is almost as dense as that surrounding the change of a biscuit into the body of Christ. And people kill over this stuff, too.
 
Got to say, apart from the stuff about the 'strong state' and the enthusiasm for the military (from the Demos paper) these guys sound like they'd have a lot in common politically with some people in the Occupy movement.

And the racism. But there are many undeniably good ideas there too, especially the role they ascribe to finance capital.
 
Is Social Loan anything like Social Credit? I know there are some dodgy aspects to Social Credit and some of those involved in it have also been involved in anti-Semitism iirc.
 
Is Social Loan anything like Social Credit? I know there are some dodgy aspects to Social Credit and some of those involved in it have also been involved in anti-Semitism iirc.

It was Ezra Pound's Big Idea.

There's nothing necessarily anti-semitic about it, however.
 
No they don't.
Catalan and Basque nationalists were not univocal. Left-wing Catalan Nationalists sided with the Republicans, while Conservative Catalan nationalists were far less vocal supporting the government due to anti-clericalism and confiscations occurring in areas within its control. Basque Nationalists, heralded by the conservative Basque Nationalist Party, were mildly supportive of the Republican government, even though some in Navarre sided with the uprising for the same reasons influencing conservative Catalans. Notwithstanding religious matters, Basque nationalists, who were for the most part Catholic, generally sided with the Republicans
 
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