third position fascism

[Nice one]

Below is a propaganda video from casapound, Speaking to a Italian comrade in regards to Casapound, she explained that Casapound and their ilk have it the right way around, that on the left, you are expected to be somewhat up to speed politically from the start, that its meeting after meeting and demo after demo before you get an invite from comrades for dinner or a drink...or the walking club. What CasaPound do is put on free cinemas for young people, hip-hop nights, sports clubs, the politics comes quite slowly,slowly, and by the time you fully realize you're a fascist it doesnt matter because now, so are all your friends, all your activities, pretty much all your life.

Treehouses

 

[Citizen66]

Sort of, although some of the ideas used in third positionism (stuff like distributism/distributionism, for example) are quite well-worn (i.e. "between the wars"-ish), and aren't so much "far left" as hangovers from what we might call "simpler times" ideologically. Third positionism does have plenty of far right tropes that it clings to which rather make the claims to be "beyond left and right" seem a bit hollow, though - a usual third position policy trope is to work alongside politically-similar persons of other "races" and ethnicities in order to achieve a version of ethnic segregation. Not the sort of thing you usually see the far left advocating.

Indeed. So third positionists aren't necessarily anti-semitic and could work with Israel.

 

[Limerick Red]

I'm no expert, but I've come across "third positionism" and other forms of "left fascism" a fair few times over the years.

The first point must be something of a caveat. Just like the left much of the stuff you encounter is just noise endlessly spewed by a handful of egotists and hobbyists. Much like the above mentioned TS. A few individuals with a lifelong enthusiasm can generate an awful lot of apparent publications, organisations and websites. That's not to say this stuff doesn't have a genuine presence, it does, but that one should sift carefully.

Secondly, it's not "new". You can pick all kindsa start points, but old namesx like Strasser, Evola and Chesterton are regularly invoked.

I guess much like lefties exploring non-Leninist communism, much of this is non-Hitlerite fascism with a similar sort of purist appeal.

In the Uk they've explored environmentalism and animal rights, welsh and Irish Republicanism too.

Some get all into catholic fundamentalism.

Others went out and got hurt in the Balkan wars. I forget which side they fought for.

In Italy there's the whole Casa Pound thing, but it's complicated out there. Fascism ain't a fringe pursuit like here.

I've even seen Mexicans pushing this stuff.

However, it's also worth bearing in mind that aside from true believers, much of their audience and more casual activists are (again just like the left) hopping from vehicle to vehicle without any real preference.

For example, we "acquired" a large bunch of things from a local fash, he happily mixed his third positionist tat with with more trad NS paraphernalia.


************


Apologies for the rambling nature of this post...

I think, and sorry if Im muddying the waters abit, in regards to autonomus Nationalism, or National Anarchism, is like you mentioned with the Animal Rights stuff, and Green issues, is youth can get involved in these groups, as they come across radical, anti-authority, anti-state, there are one or two very small groups in the UK pushing this stuff at the moment, Im not going to name them, as it would be almost impossible to come across them without their name. But like mentioned you get all the "fun" of being anti-authority, at the same time as being able to keep all your racist and conservative ideas.
Case in point would be the following National Socialist Hip Hop, complete with Bling bling motor, IRA T-shirts,guns and graffiti

I realise this is talking about the more subcultural aspects, but this is a substantial youth movement in some countries

 

[frogwoman]

Fucking hell.

 

[nino_savatte]

Nazi hip hop? Where the fuck do they think hip-hop came from?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Another thing worth thinking about with regards to these kinds of far right movements is the way they fit with more mainstream intellectual/ideological trends that have emerged in the same period as they did. The shift away from racial supremacy towards separateness (separate but equal etc.) mirroring the logic of liberal state multiculturalism etc. And their use of post-modernist type language and obsession with culture, identity etc. I think the generation identitaire or whatever they're called (the French far right youth movement) even claim to be followers of Gramsci, though I expect their interpretation of Gramsci, like in most academia, is Gramsci with the Marxism removed so you've basically got Croce (sp?)

I've not really got any thought out ideas about the significance of this so I hope cleverer people than me might want to comment.

 

[Corax]

Would folk regard the Tea Party as qualifying for this distinction?

 

[chilango]

I'd say, loosely, that national anarchism etc. are part of the same thing. Look at who's pushing it...old TPers. I guess the Nat bols seemed sexier than living according in an ultra catholic commune in a ruined French village or whatever so time for another re-branding!

 

[chilango]

Would folk regard the Tea Party as qualifying for this distinction?

No.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

So if I understand correctly, these guys (Evola I'm pretty sure about) don't advocate any kind of change in ownership/control of the means of production?

 

[SpineyNorman]

I think, and sorry if Im muddying the waters abit, in regards to autonomus Nationalism, or National Anarchism, is like you mentioned with the Animal Rights stuff, and Green issues, is youth can get involved in these groups, as they come across radical, anti-authority, anti-state, there are one or two very small groups in the UK pushing this stuff at the moment, Im not going to name them, as it would be almost impossible to come across them without their name. But like mentioned you get all the "fun" of being anti-authority, at the same time as being able to keep all your racist and conservative ideas.
Case in point would be the following National Socialist Hip Hop, complete with Bling bling motor, IRA T-shirts,guns and graffiti

I realise this is talking about the more subcultural aspects, but this is a substantial youth movement in some countries

Maybe it's just me, but does he fart loudly as he gets out of the car at about 55 seconds? What's that all about?

 

[frogwoman]

Not sure Corax chilango, look at Ron Paul etc and his adoption of certain 'anti a authoritarian' outlooks like promoting the legalization of marijuana and oppo to the war etc, and his son Rand's involvement in the tea party.

 

[frogwoman]

Maybe it's just me, but does he fart loudly as he gets out of the car at about 55 seconds? What's that all about?

He does

 

[chilango]

In the Uk at least, it's a very chimeric scene. Much is a reaction to fads and trends on "the left". Hence the black bloc stylings en vogue recently, in the 90s the fake ELF set up, and their AR group (I forget the name) plus the authentic crossover around "Alternative GreeN". Before that you could look at how the success of Meibion Glyndwr et al led to the Welsh Distributist Movement and so on.

I don't think thus is just "bandwagonning" either. But at least partly a reflection that some of these guys see themselves as revolutionaries and are genuinely attracted to radical politics.

Not all though. Others knee jerk into ultratradionalism etc.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Not sure Corax chilango, look at Ron Paul etc and his adoption of certain 'anti a authoritarian' outlooks like promoting the legalization of marijuana and oppo to the war etc, and his son Rand's involvement in the tea party.

I don't think the tea party is coherent enough to be put in with this lot though - in the US groups like the Bay Area National Anarchists would fit though.

 

[Limerick Red]

Maybe it's just me, but does he fart loudly as he gets out of the car at about 55 seconds? What's that all about?

This is just more of their radical veneer to appeal to the youth

 

[chilango]

Not sure Corax chilango, look at Ron Paul etc and his adoption of certain 'anti a authoritarian' outlooks like promoting the legalization of marijuana and oppo to the war etc, and his son Rand's involvement in the tea party.

Oh yeah.

But the US "right" has always had an anti authoritarian streak. Older than of the European stuff we're talking about here.

 

[Corax]

Not sure Corax chilango, look at Ron Paul etc and his adoption of certain 'anti a authoritarian' outlooks like promoting the legalization of marijuana and oppo to the war etc, and his son Rand's involvement in the tea party.

Aye. They've always seemed pretty 'anti-government' in a way, alongside being right-wingers. Like moderate mid-west survivalists or something.

 

[SpineyNorman]

This is just more of their radical veneer to appeal to the youth

Best bit of the video IMO

 

[chilango]

Though, whenever I encountered casapound stuff it was pretty unambiguous. Even an outsider like me could spot they were fash. Their demos for e,g. Big, Big Italian flags, very orderly too!

Ok they pushed stuff like housing and banking etc as issues, but even their prop was clear, fash design. (Colours, typefaces, layouts etc.).

Sure, more ambiguous than say Fiamma Tricolore type outfits, but not as disguised as you might think.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Oh yeah.

But the US "right" has always had an anti authoritarian streak. Older than of the European stuff we're talking about here.

Yeah, always seemed to me like that kind of politics comes out of the whole myth of the rugged individualist frontier stuff.

The bit I find interesting about third position is the way it focuses less on race and more on culture/identity (the switch from racial to ethno nationalism) and abandons, at least in rhetoric, racial/cultural supremacy in favour of separateness and the idea of maintaining ethnic diversity by keeping them apart - which I think is tied into the way a lot of their stuff mirrors post-modernism and liberal multiculturalism.

 

[chilango]

Tell you what though, I'm glad I never saw this stuff in my early teens. Would've been far too attractive.

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah, always seemed to me like that kind of politics comes out of the whole myth of the rugged individualist frontier stuff.

The bit I find interesting about third position is the way it focuses less on race and more on culture/identity (the switch from racial to ethno nationalism) and abandons, at least in rhetoric, racial/cultural supremacy in favour of separateness and the idea of maintaining ethnic diversity by keeping them apart - which I think is tied into the way a lot of their stuff mirrors post-modernism and liberal multiculturalism.

Isn't that kind of the direction some leftists are going in too which makes it more easy for far-right ideas to become acceptable? The focus on identity politics etc.

 

[butchersapron]

One quick one, tea party are anti-big state and anti-protectionism - third-positionism, third way way fascism is very pro-strong protectionist and interventionist state. It's the state who is to carry out the 'left-wing' elements of their program against international capitalism. See the early pages of the 21st century fascism thread for previous discussion

 

[SpineyNorman]

This is just more of their radical veneer to appeal to the youth

Maybe this is why the left isn't attractive to da yoof - ever seen Billy Bragg fart in a music video? I rest my case.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Isn't that kind of the direction some leftists are going in too which makes it more easy for far-right ideas to become acceptable? The focus on identity politics etc.

Yeah - I don't always agree with the IWCA but I think they're bang on the money with this stuff.

Multiculturalism & identity politics – the reactionary consequences and how they can be challenged

 

[butchersapron]

I think we could do with a bit of clarity on what the concept and phenomenon we're discussing is here. At its most basic (i'll go into more detail later) third-way-positionism lumping them together for now) it's the claim to have gone beyond left and right by synthesizing all the progressive and useful elements of both the critiques of and the functioning of capitalism and Communism (the former being seen as the increasingly massified industrial capital of the war-production years of WW1, steered by financial capital - mirroring the anti-imperialism of the left even at that early point, and the latter viewed as soviet based system of the early USSR then the later simple state control model). And the thing that has gone beyond this crude left/right divide is fascism. Or 'neo-fascism'. That's it in a nutshell - and of course, the rather vague claim can and has been filled at various times by different content and different emphasis depending on different factors - international situation, state of the class struggle, geo-politics etc

Historically, there's three main periods/areas of interest that still have intellectual and social influence today. After 1917 and throughout the 20s in Germany and Russia and the Social Republic of Italy after 1943. In Germany there were breakaways from the KPD then the KAPD by the nationally prominent Lauffenberg and Wolffheim who then organised on the basis of 'national bolshevism' - essentially a nationalist communism with a strong anti-financial capital emphasis. Sure i don't need to point out where that later went with the strassers and others. Anyway, this current, now integrated with strasserism is the dominant third-positionism over there today. In Russia there were far-right and ultra-nationalist groups who supported the bolsheviks because they thought they were the perfect vehicle for establishing Russia's deserved role as world power. And finally, the Italian Social Republic from 1943-45 whose Manifesto of Verona forms a large part of the political grammar of groups like CasaPound today - basically, a strong racial corporatist state that made extravagant promises to workers and peasants whilst ensuring state control (not ownership) of capital.

Post war, european fascist/neo-fascist theory was dominated and regulated by the cold war, the the 'fight' between the USSR and the USA and what would be the best strategical move for fascists to make to benefit europe. There's not much point going into this bit here beyond how it introduced a key concepts to third positionism – anti-americanism and identity. Many fascists argued that they should line up the the USSR and Communism against the US in defence of shared European interests and against what they saw a menacing mickey-mouse, homogenising capital that flattened all cultures down and undermined national identities. (If you want to get into this very complex and often confusing area have a look at Kevin Coogan's book Dreamer of the Day: Francis Parker Yockey and the Postwar Fascist International or Martin Lee's The Beast Reawakens). This helped birth things like euro-fascism and euro-nationalism, the sort of things that the small groups who kept the idea alive during this period made their USP rather than simple aggressive nationalism.

This lead onto two key influences on CasaPound (going to concentrate on them now – as we approach today it's probably best to have some real example to point to and to highlight what this stuff means in practice). New Order (don't, please) and the French new right. The latter popularised, on the basis of the above cold war positions, an rhetorically non-racist ethnic identitarianism – seperate but equal, localism/federalism, ecology, anti-imperialism/anti-americanism – anti-establishment in short. (Like Anelka). From the former - largely based on the writings of Evola, spiritual racism (i,e non, biological) and the use of exemplary actions, esp violence (see the Bologna bombings and various other examples of this non-racial spiritual aristocracy being put into action). In the italian context there was a further influence – the 43-45 social republic, which the members of this current claimed contained the socialist aspects of fascism (they dropped the open racism part of it), a strong state designed to protect its citizens from the depredations of international capital – so anti-bank, finance capital (you may read some other terms here given that the Verona manifesto explicitly declared Jews and enemy – this was latter argued to have been only included because of the Nazis).

So there we have (albeit without including the various and convoluted organisational history) the evolution of a group like CasaPound who see themselves as representing a 'neo-fascism' that has gone beyond right and left on the basis of: a strong state empowered to protect its citizens from international capitalism, ethnic separatism, anti-imperialism, ecology, exemplary violence, spiritual racism, localist and anti-establishment and with the interests of the workers at its core.

I'm going to write something about CasaPound now and how all the above is playing out. CP sees itself as stated above, as neo-fascists who have moved beyond left and right. They have their roots (well, they have deeper roots, but this will do for this piece) in the occupation of a council owned building, a casa, in Rome about 10 years back. This, it was claimed was because of the terrible housing situation working class families faced in the city, as an exposure of the damage that neo-liberalism was doing to them through forced eviction, and wider of the real estate housing bubble that financial capital was imposing nationally. An ideological response to a social need.

That's the casa bit, what about the Pound bit? Pound refers to the genius US fascist poet Ezra Pound - that's normally as far as the story goes. But it's actually a bit deeper than that. It's a reference to Pounds theory of 'rent as usury' (and there goes the thread). More on this when i get to the Social Loan later. But deeper still, his theory of the casa as the home, the holy place, the place which capital, finance capital, should not be allowed to enter. In order to stop the jews/finance capital battering down the doors of the casa a strong state is required. One a bit like the Manifesto of Verona specifies.

But there's more, the state itself is a casa, a home, a holy place, and in order to safeguard this casa it needs to be removed from the control of foreign or hidden manipulators (economic or political – the IMF, the World Bank etc).

Then, even more, once europe has all these strong safe casas, they can then form a larger casa and impose social protectionism across the continent and against international capital.

All sounds great doesn't it? The original occupation was for white italian families only. That's what a casa at that level means. That's what it means on every other level too. This is what the rhetoric about protection from capital means, the IMF etc means.

What do you get when you get your casa looking just how you like it? A society and state in harmony, a social harmony, a social ecology – of course, that this is a strictly hierarchical, aristocratic society based on spiritual racism (i'm sure that's just how it would stay) is not mentioned at this point. After all, don't you like ecology? Harmony etc?

This is all made easier since the lack of a Communist threat means all energies can be focused on international capitalism, seen rather simply as Washington, which leads to a simple anti-americanism then anti-imperialism (and anti-zionism). These are presented as damaging to w/c needs and so have to be challenged though the construction of that strong Verona state, this being the only way to remove the casas subordination.

The appeal of all these rhetorically anti-establishment things to people suffering, in need, looking for enemies , for answers should be clear by now. The results: 5000 active militants. 15 bookshops. 20 pubs, monthly and quarterly journals. They manage this by activity across all social fields that might appeal to the young or progressive: The Forest that Grows (ecology – inspired by nazi Darre), It’s time to be mothers (special working regs for mothers), The Salamandra (working on projects in areas hit by natural disasters or in need to manpower to build social projects), GR.I.M.Es (intervention for social medicine), Bunkernoise academy (music workshops and gigs), Turbodinamismo (art spaces, heavily futurist emphasis – who'd have thought that) and plenty more. This is how they build their comradeship locally.

Nationally they operate three main groups:

BLU – United Workers Bloc – agitates around what appear to be simple labour issues but in fact is initiative to gain acceptance for the fascist 1927 Labour charter.

Stop Equitalia: campaign against tax collection

Social Loan: this is back to the casa stuff. Essentially the idea is that rent should = ownership, the strong (fascist) state ensures that this is the case, against that pesky finance capital again. Back to Verona.

On top of this there are OSAs (Occupations for the purpose of housing) operating in three regions – identifying state owned housing taking it over and turning it over to families, food assistance, schemes for the elderly and vulnerable (the Social Doctrine of Italian Fascism).

I haven't bothered uncovering the fascist and far-right elements of the above in too much detail – they should be pretty obvious to all reading this thread. The key thing is the ease with which the above can be portrayed as progressive, as left-wing. And how well thought out this stuff is. It's amazingly impressive

Stopping now.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I think we could do with a bit of clarity on what the concept and phenomenon we're discussing is here. At its most basic (i'll go into more detail later) third-way-positionism lumping them together for now) it's the claim to have gone beyond left and right by synthesizing all the progressive and useful elements of both the critiques of and the functioning of capitalism and Communism (the former being seen as the increasingly massified industrial capital of the war-production years of WW1, steered by financial capital - mirroring the anti-imperialism of the left even at that early point, and the latter viewed as soviet based system of the early USSR then the later simple state control model). And the thing that has gone beyond this crude left/right divide is fascism. Or 'neo-fascism'. That's it in a nutshell - and of course, the rather vague claim can and has been filled at various times by different content and different emphasis depending on different factors - international situation, state of the class struggle, geo-politics etc

Historically, there's three main periods/areas of interest that still have intellectual and social influence today. After 1917 and throughout the 20s in Germany and Russia and the Social Republic of Italy after 1943. In Germany there were breakaways from the KPD then the KAPD by the nationally prominent Lauffenberg and Wolffheim who then organised on the basis of 'national bolshevism' - essentially a nationalist communism with a strong anti-financial capital emphasis. Sure i don't need to point out where that later went with the strassers and others. Anyway, this current, now integrated with strasserism is the dominant third-positionism over there today. In Russia there were far-right and ultra-nationalist groups who supported the bolsheviks because they thought they were the perfect vehicle for establishing Russia's deserved role as world power. And finally, the Italian Social Republic from 1943-45 whose Manifesto of Verona forms a large part of the political grammar of groups like CasaPound today - basically, a strong racial corporatist state that made extravagant promises to workers and peasants whilst ensuring state control (not ownership) of capital.

Post war, european fascist/neo-fascist theory was dominated and regulated by the cold war, the the 'fight' between the USSR and the USA and what would be the best strategical move for fascists to make to benefit europe. There's not much point going into this bit here beyond how it introduced a key concepts to third positionism – anti-americanism and identity. Many fascists argued that they should line up the the USSR and Communism against the US in defence of shared European interests and against what they saw a menacing mickey-mouse, homogenising capital that flattened all cultures down and undermined national identities. (If you want to get into this very complex and often confusing area have a look at Kevin Coogan's book Dreamer of the Day: Francis Parker Yockey and the Postwar Fascist International or Martin Lee's The Beast Reawakens). This helped birth things like euro-fascism and euro-nationalism, the sort of things that the small groups who kept the idea alive during this period made their USP rather than simple aggressive nationalism.

This lead onto two key influences on CasaPound (going to concentrate on them now – as we approach today it's probably best to have some real example to point to and to highlight what this stuff means in practice). New Order (don't, please) and the French new right. The latter popularised, on the basis of the above cold war positions, an rhetorically non-racist ethnic identitarianism – seperate but equal, localism/federalism, ecology, anti-imperialism/anti-americanism – anti-establishment in short. (Like Anelka). From the former - largely based on the writings of Evola, spiritual racism (i,e non, biological) and the use of exemplary actions, esp violence (see the Bologna bombings and various other examples of this non-racial spiritual aristocracy being put into action). In the italian context there was a further influence – the 43-45 social republic, which the members of this current claimed contained the socialist aspects of fascism (they dropped the open racism part of it), a strong state designed to protect its citizens from the depredations of international capital – so anti-bank, finance capital (you may read some other terms here given that the Verona manifesto explicitly declared Jews and enemy – this was latter argued to have been only included because of the Nazis).

So there we have (albeit without including the various and convoluted organisational history) the evolution of a group like CasaPound who see themselves as representing a 'neo-fascism' that has gone beyond right and left on the basis of: a strong state empowered to protect its citizens from international capitalism, ethnic separatism, anti-imperialism, ecology, exemplary violence, spiritual racism, localist and anti-establishment and with the interests of the workers at its core.

I'm going to write something about CasaPound now and how all the above is playing out. CP sees itself as stated above, as neo-fascists who have moved beyond left and right. They have their roots (well, they have deeper roots, but this will do for this piece) in the occupation of a council owned building, a casa, in Rome about 10 years back. This, it was claimed was because of the terrible housing situation working class families faced in the city, as an exposure of the damage that neo-liberalism was doing to them through forced eviction, and wider of the real estate housing bubble that financial capital was imposing nationally. An ideological response to a social need.

That's the casa bit, what about the Pound bit? Pound refers to the genius US fascist poet Ezra Pound - that's normally as far as the story goes. But it's actually a bit deeper than that. It's a reference to Pounds theory of 'rent as usury' (and there goes the thread). More on this when i get to the Social Loan later. But deeper still, his theory of the casa as the home, the holy place, the place which capital, finance capital, should not be allowed to enter. In order to stop the jews/finance capital battering down the doors of the casa a strong state is required. One a bit like the Manifesto of Verona specifies.

But there's more, the state itself is a casa, a home, a holy place, and in order to safeguard this casa it needs to be removed from the control of foreign or hidden manipulators (economic or political – the IMF, the World Bank etc).

Then, even more, once europe has all these strong safe casas, they can then form a larger casa and impose social protectionism across the continent and against international capital.

All sounds great doesn't it? The original occupation was for white italian families only. That's what a casa at that level means. That's what it means on every other level too. This is what the rhetoric about protection from capital means, the IMF etc means.

What do you get when you get your casa looking just how you like it? A society and state in harmony, a social harmony, a social ecology – of course, that this is a strictly hierarchical, aristocratic society based on spiritual racism (i'm sure that's just how it would stay) is not mentioned at this point. After all, don't you like ecology? Harmony etc?

This is all made easier since the lack of a Communist threat means all energies can be focused on international capitalism, seen rather simply as Washington, which leads to a simple anti-americanism then anti-imperialism (and anti-zionism). These are presented as damaging to w/c needs and so have to be challenged though the construction of that strong Verona state, this being the only way to remove the casas subordination.

The appeal of all these rhetorically anti-establishment things to people suffering, in need, looking for enemies , for answers should be clear by now. The results: 5000 active militants. 15 bookshops. 20 pubs, monthly and quarterly journals. They manage this by activity across all social fields that might appeal to the young or progressive: The Forest that Grows (ecology – inspired by nazi Darre), It’s time to be mothers (special working regs for mothers), The Salamandra (working on projects in areas hit by natural disasters or in need to manpower to build social projects), GR.I.M.Es (intervention for social medicine), Bunkernoise academy (music workshops and gigs), Turbodinamismo (art spaces, heavily futurist emphasis – who'd have thought that) and plenty more. This is how they build their comradeship locally.

Nationally they operate three main groups:

BLU – United Workers Bloc – agitates around what appear to be simple labour issues but in fact is initiative to gain acceptance for the fascist 1927 Labour charter.

Stop Equitalia: campaign against tax collection

Social Loan: this is back to the casa stuff. Essentially the idea is that rent should = ownership, the strong (fascist) state ensures that this is the case, against that pesky finance capital again. Back to Verona.

On top of this there are OSAs (Occupations for the purpose of housing) operating in three regions – identifying state owned housing taking it over and turning it over to families, food assistance, schemes for the elderly and vulnerable (the Social Doctrine of Italian Fascism).

I haven't bothered uncovering the fascist and far-right elements of the above in too much detail – they should be pretty obvious to all reading this thread. The key thing is the ease with which the above can be portrayed as progressive, as left-wing. And how well thought out this stuff is. It's amazingly impressive

Stopping now.

I'm tempted to like that because of it's length. Will come back later and read it though. Have an air-like in the meantime.

 

[Limerick Red]

The key thing is the ease with which the above can be portrayed as progressive, as left-wing. And how well thought out this stuff is. It's amazingly impressive

It is terrifyingly slick!....Do you think that it is particular to Italy? i.e the whole social centre movement, that isn't easily transferable to other countries?

 

[Pickman's model]

It is terrifyingly slick!....Do you think that it is particular to Italy? i.e the whole social centre movement, that isn't easily transferable to other countries?

tbh the @ social centres thing people tried in london some years ago, the short life of the centres ultimately killed it as so much work was done to make the places vaguely habitable and after a certain number of times of finding, opening and cleaning places people just called it a day. i think things like the number of activists, the money available, rent - or squatting laws, etc -- administrative or bureaucratic limiters -- set boundaries to what can be done. there seems to be something in the culture on the continent which allows some forms of activity to flourish, and these forms can't necessarily be easily transplanted to the uk.