existentialist
Tired and unemotional
More than just sacked. There is a lack of accountability here that really bothers me.
The Trial of Lucy Letby
- Thread starter Magnus McGinty
- Start date
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yeah, I find it depressingly easy to understand how the doctors and other nurses kept their complaints within the Trust. It's the psychology of organisations, fear of becoming exposed, lots of stuff. In fact 'someone could have been saved if they'd only made their move earlier' is pretty much a constant in these cases. The only thing I don't get about the consultants is around their high status and even natural arrogance - it's a trivial part of the damage Letby was doing, but she was actively undoing their good (lifesaving) work. I'd have thought one or two of the consultants might have pushed a bit harder or gone outside the Trust on almost self interested grounds. Having said all that, it's not about blaming docs and other nurses, it's about encouraging whistle blowing. It saves lives.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
It seems to rarely be clinical staff and more commonly trust executives and high level management. There's been some shocking cases of doctors being reported to the GMC with fabricated or exaggerated accusations to try and shut them up.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I think that part of this is a hostile management culture towards clinical staff, which, alongside the massive pressure they are kept under, is creating a kind of siege mentality, which would make different clinicians be very reluctant to dob their coalface colleagues in to the people in suits upstairs. Which, coupled with the likely reaction, or complete inaction, of said suits upstairs, leaves them only the option of "failing to notice" what's going on.
It is amazing what we can ignore when we don't know what to do about it, or if the consequences of doing something about it are too unpalatable to contemplate.
ETA:: tldr; snap, LDC
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Yep. If we see some people as "monsters" it makes it harder to do that. I think there's a tendency to paint them as such to distance ourselves from them, but it's humans that do these horrible things and we need to deal with that if we're ever going to understand why.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Is that emerging? Where is it emerging from?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Absolutely an aspect of NHS managerialism and the rise of powerful managers. Gagging orders and the rest are all in the mix when people see something is wrong and end up leaving themselves. Though equally, I don't know if there was ever a golden age of NHS whistle blowing (as in I really don't know).I think that part of this is a hostile management culture towards clinical staff, which, alongside the massive pressure they are kept under, is creating a kind of siege mentality, which would make different clinicians be very reluctant to dob their coalface colleagues in to the people in suits upstairs. Which, coupled with the likely reaction, or complete inaction, of said suits upstairs, leaves them only the option of "failing to notice" what's going on.
It is amazing what we can ignore when we don't know what to do about it, or if the consequences of doing something about it are too unpalatable to contemplate.
ETA:: tldr; snap, LDC
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
What were Lucy Letby’s possible motives for murdering babies?
What led the serial killer nurse to commit her crimes may never be fully known, but jurors were told of several possibilities
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I think that is already the norm. I've only been to two PICUs and NICUs but they both had 24-hour CCTV. It's for other reasons than protecting against wrongdoers, though.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
In terms of her clinical colleagues there will at least be some who will have dampened any suspicions they had, not to close ranks but because the idea would be so abhorrent there would be huge “does not compute” cognitive dissonance. I reckon more so among colleagues who have entered the job to fundamentally care for others. 
The ripples are going to be felt much wider than the lives she’s directly affected. It’s going to hang over NICU care across the whole country. It is literally a parent’s worst nightmare.
The ripples are going to be felt much wider than the lives she’s directly affected. It’s going to hang over NICU care across the whole country. It is literally a parent’s worst nightmare.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
A lot of people here may be familiar with this case, but what really brought it home to me how dangerous it was was reading the account in Private Eye of a senior consultant getting a death threat (that he "would end up like Dr Kelly in the woods with his wrists slit" as I recall) if he didn't stop raising as a problem an issue with ventilation in an operating theatre.
savoloysam
Pigman's pigman's ha ha charade you are..
I was watching some of it on the news earlier but had to switch it off. It's too much to stomach and I won't be watching this either. I could end up " sex pistoling" my TV.
hash tag
Books, not bombs
10 months. Can you imagine putting your life on hold for 10 months, especially for something as grim as this.
I watched that too. Her childhood best friend in complete denial saying she was 'the sweetest person you could ever meet and there's no way she could do this'. I don't think I'd be putting my face on TV sayin that..
savoloysam
Pigman's pigman's ha ha charade you are..
The media are going to be all over this for days. Obviously people will want answers but the media just want ratings. I'll be staying away from it.
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
Edit: Actually can't be bothered.
savoloysam
Pigman's pigman's ha ha charade you are..
Aren't they always. The West's neighbours for example coming out and saying that they were perfect neighbours or some bollocks like that.
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
I don't know - the friend is probably in utter shock. There are other friends from university who've said that she was a quiet, sweet, kind person and they can't believe what's happened.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Honestly fuck right off with your posts on this, you're posting erratic spurious bollocks based on shit people gossip to you or post on social media ffs.
If you ever get selected for jury service excuse yourself as not fit.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
I’m not sure we should be slating anyone (at least someone completely unrelated to the case) for taking time to come around to the idea that she intentionally murdered babies, particularly before there’s a suggestion of a possible motive. It’s a pretty horrific thing to get one’s head around.
Elpenor
Dancing as fast as I can
She probably was a quiet, sweet, kind person. That doesn’t stop you being a murderer.
I can’t bend my head round it. West and Hindley were accomplices of men who may not have become serial killers without that. The closest she is to is Allitt, who operated in a similar manner but was considered odd rather than leaving folk in disbelief.
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
My point was more about the A level psychologist students hot take on the person's mental health. Anyway that's why I edited it.I’m not sure we should be slating anyone (at least someone completely unrelated to the case) for taking time to come around to the idea that she intentionally murdered babies, particularly before there’s a suggestion of a possible motive. It’s a pretty horrific thing to get one’s head around.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBF in her case there are so many layers of social conditioning - how she looks, what her job is (especially), what her name is - that I am not surprised that people cannot comprehend that she did this.
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