The Trial of Lucy Letby

[Agent Sparrow]

Normal women are much less likely to murder anyone than normal men.

I’m not sure if I’d use the word “normal”* but I agree, and would argue that’s down to how normal masculinity/machismo is socialised.

*because I doubt any murderers are normal as in not fucked up, but as said earlier it is still the range of the “normal” range of humanity.

 

[Flavour]

I don't get how there is any debate at all as to her guilt, unless people want to believe that the handwritten notes in which she admits to doing it were fabricated by persons unknown.

 

[agricola]

God alone knows what the quantum of compensation paid out by the Trust is likely to be.

I'd imagine there would be some attempt at establishing a central compensation scheme for this.

 

[ouirdeaux]

Do you think that Catholic priests just start out with honest intentions and end up thinking "I could abuse kids here so why not" or do they think they go there because it's the best place to "ply their trade"

No idea, although obviously I can speculate. Have you got better knowledge? Though that would still not have much bearing on what I asked, about which I can only simliarly speculate.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

She probably was a quiet, sweet, kind person. That doesn’t stop you being a murderer.

Being quiet doesn't. But I'd say murdering babies strips you of your "sweet kind" badge.

 

[savoloysam]

Nobody gets to be a mentalist serial killer by waving a look at me I'm an evil shit badge.

They all manage to convince people that they are sweet innocent beings. That's how they get away with it.

 

[Elpenor]

Being quiet doesn't. But I'd say murdering babies strips you of your "sweet kind" badge.

Sure, but she was clearly perceived as being sweet and kind by the people who knew her.

 

[Wilf]

I don't get how there is any debate at all as to her guilt, unless people want to believe that the handwritten notes in which she admits to doing it were fabricated by persons unknown.

Prof David Wilson seemed to be having a go at saying the note might not be an admission plus that she didn't fit the profile ( in the Panoeama episode recorded before the verdict). Seemed to have changed his tune post verdict, on newsnight.

 

[existentialist]

I'd imagine there would be some attempt at establishing a central compensation scheme for this.

Doubtless with "bed and board" for the babies deducted.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

My point that you misinterpreted is that would Hindley or West have become serial killers without ending up with the partners they did? Fred was already killing before he met Rose for example.

Have a listen to the Unheard podcast series about Fred and Rose West. That might change your mind on that point.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

And - not that is was you that brought this up - her parents "wailing" in court is really not weird at all. I mean, FFS, there are many normal ways to react to your daughter being in court on a charge like this, and "wailing" is definitely one of them.

Indeed.

For four days non-stop? Get a grip.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

And not parentS, mother. The same woman who upon being told her daughter was being nicked for murdering multiple babies said to old bill that she would take whatever rap was coming Lucy’s way on her behalf if they would let her go.

Maybe I’m the abnormal one here, but in my household that behaviour would not occur.

 

[petee]

Normal women are much less likely to murder anyone than normal men.

and there it is.

 

[emanymton]

It might vary by individual, of course, and this sort of killer rarely seems to talk much about their motivation (and of course might lie).

They probably will not even fully understand their own motivation.

 

[kenny g]

Aren't they always. The West's neighbours for example coming out and saying that they were perfect neighbours or some bollocks like that.

One of things that sickens me about the West's case is the number of men in Gloucester who must have been visiting the house to be served by Rose and appear to have raised no alarms about the welfare of the children.

 

[kenny g]

And not parentS, mother. The same woman who upon being told her daughter was being nicked for murdering multiple babies said to old bill that she would take whatever rap was coming Lucy’s way on her behalf if they would let her go.

Maybe I’m the abnormal one here, but in my household that behaviour would not occur.

Clearly the mother's fault, because in these cases it always is. FFS.

 

[PR1Berske]

I don't get how there is any debate at all as to her guilt, unless people want to believe that the handwritten notes in which she admits to doing it were fabricated by persons unknown.

I work at an NHS Trust where, only this year, a case lasting over ten years has been resolved regarding a botched birth and nurses fabricating hand written notes to try and get away with it. Sadly the Letby case will now place incredible focus on NICU wards, neonatal nurses, the lot. Look at the Telegraph headline, "NHS failed...", not "Nurse murdered...".

 

[ouirdeaux]

The failure to act is an institutional failing, though, like the failure of the Catholic Church with paedophiles, or the BBC with Jimmy Savile.

 

[PR1Berske]

The failure to act is an institutional failing, though, like the failure of the Catholic Church with paedophiles, or the BBC with Jimmy Savile.

The Tories only want to save the Church out of those three.

 

[Joe Chi Min]

A number of reports highlight that this thirty-something woman’s bed was covered in cuddly toys. When she was nicked her mum said to the police that she would take the rap for whatever has happened, apparently did a lot of wailing in court too. Something not quite right going on there, but fucked if I know what.

 

[LDC]

No. I’m entitled to my opinion and I’m entitled to change it. And I’ve been on jury service. Slightly baffled by your aggression but I sometimes forget what this place can be like.

More genuine shock rather than aggression because you insisted a convicted murderer was innocent based on zero knowledge, which you then clarified that it was because your daughter had told you she was, and then you said actually she might be guilty based off some social media post by someone that's done A level psychology.

 

[kenny g]

The cuddly toy thing is interesting. I am wondering whether her emotional development was stunted by the training and work environment she found herself in. I have heard some horrific stories about NHS bullying which makes primary school stuff sound sophisticated. As someone who was treated horribly by nurses in a children's hospital many moons back I can imagine the kind of toxic atmosphere she may have been subject to.

 

[kenny g]

More genuine shock rather than aggression because you insisted a convicted murderer was innocent based on zero knowledge, which you then clarified that it was because your daughter had told you she was, and then you said actually she might be guilty based off some social media post by someone that's done A level psychology.

Psychology is now the second most popular A level subject so even if the economy is going down the shitter at least we will have a ready band of super sleuths available at all hours to resolve major crimes.

 

[kenny g]

The Craig David angle has been sorely under investigated. I always knew he was a wrong un.

 

[moomoo]

Was she last arrested in 2020? Has she been in prison waiting for trial for all this time?

 

[existentialist]

Was she last arrested in 2020? Has she been in prison waiting for trial for all this time?

Yes, I think it was about 2 years before it came to court.

 

[kenny g]

Was she last arrested in 2020? Has she been in prison waiting for trial for all this time?

Yes.

On 11 November 2020, Letby was charged with eight counts of murder and ten counts of attempted murder. She was denied bail and remained in police custody.

Hereford nurse accused of murdering eight babies refused bail

Lucy Letby appeared at Chester Crown Court in person a day after a virtual appearance in Warrington.

web.archive.org

There is a useful timeline here:

Timeline of Britain's most shocking murder case as Lucy Letby found guilty

Former NHS nurse Lucy Letby is accused of murdering seven babies. Here are the key dates of her investigation, arrest and eventual charging.

www.express.co.uk

 

[SpookyFrank]

God alone knows what the quantum of compensation paid out by the Trust is likely to be.

When there's brain damage at birth or while the child is still in hospital the NHS will be on the hook for all sorts of ongoing care for life.

It's all stuff that should be available for all children who need it as a matter of course mind you. Speech and language therapy, funded one-to-one support in school, occupational therapy, all that stuff.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Psychology is now the second most popular A level subject so even if the economy is going down the shitter at least we will have a ready band of super sleuths available at all hours to resolve major crimes.

Even at post-grad level a lot of psychologists are wanting to pursue forensic psych as a career apparently.

Far fewer want to do educational/child psychology which is probably where there's the greatest need.

 

[Idris2002]

One of things that sickens me about the West's case is the number of men in Gloucester who must have been visiting the house to be served by Rose and appear to have raised no alarms about the welfare of the children.

It came out at Rose's trial that Fred had been a police informer, something that was never followed up as far as I know.