danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
A brief exchange took place which didn’t need to remain on permanent view.
The Trial of Lucy Letby
- Thread starter Magnus McGinty
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Your fingers say that but your ellipsis something else
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
And that’s absolutely fair enough, certainly it’s not something everyone (or indeed most people) need to do. People who aren’t privy to the facts could only do a very rough attempt anyway. But that’s different from stating it’s nothing more complicated than “pure evil” which is what sparked this conversation.
Interesting she’s a premie herself. I wonder how premature, and whether that had any impact on her neurology.
I was nametagged in it!
Mysterious.Struggling to understand what you're tryjng to say here...she does indicate that she knew what she was doing was wrong.
What would have impacted her neurology at infant level to the extent that she waited until she was an adult to kill?
I should say...I was a premature baby..by 2 months. So is my brother..a highly competent very caring consultant physician. And my sister also highly competent and caring person.
If somebody falls over and strikes their head, it can cause brain damage with a whole range of effects, including massive behavioural change. But that doesn’t mean that everybody that falls over undergoes massive behavioural change.
Similarly, being premature can have a very wide range of neurological implications. That doesn’t mean that being premature will have implications, however, let alone any specific one.
Yes..I know that..
My brain does comprehended what was written...I just do not see the relevance of her own premature birth to the killings.Sometimes people kill. For no reason other than the power over another life.
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
Yep. If she didn't know it was wrong, she wouldn't have tried to cover it up. And it sounds like she went to a mainstream secondary school and was bright enough to do A-levels and go on to uni, and there were no behavioural issues reported about her prior to this. I think the only thing her premature birth had to do with it was she viewed nurses as heroes and wanted to be that herself, but more of a glory thing. Maybe she did genuinely start off wanting to help, but then realised having looked after a dead baby would get her attention and fuss, and became addicted to that. Or just decided no one would suspect her because she was a trusted member of staff and thought she'd get away with it. Who knows.
LeytonCatLady
Who knows.
She doesn't even know herself why she did what she did.
I feel immense sadness for the families of the babies. There must be other parents wondering if she had any contact with their babies too.
It's dreadful.
I was recently in hospital and was very aware of being on the ball and watching to make sure everything done to me was done right. Even still I had to ask one nurse to sanitize her hands before she put in a line..she had just wiped her nose and was ready to stick in a line. Opening the packet with unsanitised hands.
A dr later on pulled off the line and left it open. A senior nurse came in giving out stink as to why that happened and saying it left the line open and me open to infection.
I've encountered only one nurse that I was afraid of..way back in 2000 when I was in hospital for 3 weeks with serious liver disease. She was in my view a masochist. She repeatedly flushed the line very quickly which caused a lot of pain. Even after being asked to slow down. She even asked if it was hurting as she did it knowing full well it hurt ...
There needs to be some sort of assessment for anyone working in hospitals. To make sure people who do work with vulnerable sick people are not psychopaths
Who knows.
She doesn't even know herself why she did what she did.
I feel immense sadness for the families of the babies. There must be other parents wondering if she had any contact with their babies too.
It's dreadful.
I was recently in hospital and was very aware of being on the ball and watching to make sure everything done to me was done right. Even still I had to ask one nurse to sanitize her hands before she put in a line..she had just wiped her nose and was ready to stick in a line. Opening the packet with unsanitised hands.
A dr later on pulled off the line and left it open. A senior nurse came in giving out stink as to why that happened and saying it left the line open and me open to infection.
I've encountered only one nurse that I was afraid of..way back in 2000 when I was in hospital for 3 weeks with serious liver disease. She was in my view a masochist. She repeatedly flushed the line very quickly which caused a lot of pain. Even after being asked to slow down. She even asked if it was hurting as she did it knowing full well it hurt ...
There needs to be some sort of assessment for anyone working in hospitals. To make sure people who do work with vulnerable sick people are not psychopaths
There’s no reason to think that there is a neurological pathology behind this. On the other hand, there’s also no particular evidence that there is a lack of neurological pathology, let alone where any theoretical pathology could have originally arisen. The fact that this particular behaviour only manifested in adulthood isn’t really evidence either way. We (us speculating public) have no idea, frankly.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
That'll be all the surgeons out of a job then.
But you can't actually be seriously suggesting that?
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danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Exactly. And there’s a good chance nobody will ever really know, including any psychiatrists who may work with Letby in future. Although of course there is a strong desire to know. I want to know. Ideally I want society to be able to treat people before they get to this stage, if that’s at all ever going to be possible.
One thing’s for sure, some half-arsed counsellor who has never even met her hasn’t a fucking clue.
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear of your hospital experiences. I agree, they need to do better when recruiting.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Letby has been described as 'normal' and, therefore, how could someone so apparently 'normal' be a baby-killer? Of course, that begs the question: what is normal?
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Yes, 100% this.
Problem is that clever psychopaths who are knowledgeable about the neurotype can easily fake responses. Plus if we do see psychopathy as a neurotype, there will be many out there who don’t pose a threat to others. Can explain more about that later if needed.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
There are not many things where I'd be willing to say that's just evil, that person needs to be away from everyone else forever. But systematic murder of newborn infants is one of those things.
It's in my nature to try and understand why people do things, and a criminal justice system that largely ignores this question is a travesty and a waste. But with this kind of case, it's just a question of harm reduction. It's bad wiring on a level that can't be fixed. I don't think retribution serves any purpose, don't know if punishment would even register with these people in the way we understand it, but they do need to be away from everyone else forever.
Do you think there is anything we could learn from picking apart Letby's brain that could stop anyone else from turning out like her in future? I don't. Even making changes to how hospitals are run based on this one appalling but extremely rare case risks doing more harm than good. It could just add another layer of box-ticking and arse-covering.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
There is something in that I think. The concept of 'evil' is a drag forward from more religious times, and is now used, as you say, as shorthand for inexplicable aberrant behaviour.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
picking apart letby's brain now shows how she is now, not about the events which led us to this unhappy trial
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
and Prison Healthcare and the local hospitals will do their Best to save life and limb
" ask no questions about what they've done, give no information about yourself other than your first name and keep your badge covered at all times " - the quick and dirty briefing i recieved when working on AAU when about to get my first 'Monster Mansion ' resident as an inpatient
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
not sure why you think Prison staff and other HCPs wish Harm on Ms Letby, she needs plenty of time to reflect on your actions...
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I don't agree with the IWCA on that much but they had a saying about 'understand a little more and condemn a little more' iirc which is very true in this case
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
becasue Allitt is on an Indefinite Hospital order IIRC rather than a Prison Sentenece
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
even if released a lifer can be recalled for farting in the wrong direction
scalyboy
They’re taking the piss now
Has any nurse or doctor convicted killer ever admitted guilt, or offered an explanation?
I can only think of Beverley Allitt, Benjamin Green and Harold Shipman (I’m aware there are others); as far as I know, none of these three ever did admit their culpability. Green spoke of a 'jinx' on him as if the deaths were accidental. Shipman maintained his innocence...
I can only think of Beverley Allitt, Benjamin Green and Harold Shipman (I’m aware there are others); as far as I know, none of these three ever did admit their culpability. Green spoke of a 'jinx' on him as if the deaths were accidental. Shipman maintained his innocence...
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
Apparently Allitt admitted guilt as part of a failed application to a psychiatric hospital.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
On a complete and utter tangent, when I read your user name, I expect the last word to be 'Fidelis'.
InArduisFouette
Well-Known Member
ElizabethofYork
Old Crone
That's a good point.
Pingety Pong
Well-Known Member
There was this German nurse who might have killed over 300 patients. He later admitted to many of the murders and claimed it gave him a buzz to resuscitate them and to show off his skills in front of his colleagues.
Niels Högel - Wikipedia
Weirdly, he was called as a witness last year in a trial against the former hospital bosses but they all ended up being acquitted.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
This one received a much lighter sentence:
www.yahoo.com
Former respiratory therapist in Missouri sentenced in connection with patient deaths
A former Missouri respiratory therapist who pleaded guilty in the deaths of two hospital patients has been sentenced to 18 years in prison. Jennifer Hall was initially charged with two counts of first-degree murder but pleaded guilty in April to reduced first-degree involuntary manslaughter...
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