Didnt know that she was premature - Also think that she's an only child might be relevant - did the babies she attack all have siblings ? Obviously she targeted triplets and twins and I thought she might be justifying her murders through the fact that the parents had "replacements" as it were
The Trial of Lucy Letby
- Thread starter Magnus McGinty
- Start date
This page suggests that twins are more likely to be born prematurely. So I guess they would become part of her opportunities.
kidshealth.org
Preparing for Multiple Births (for Parents) - Nemours KidsHealth
Are you expecting more than one baby? Find out how to take care of yourself and prepare for your multiple birth experience.
kidshealth.org
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
No one knows, or will ever know, but gut feeling is you're overthinking things here.
After the stafford hospital scandal and the Francis report that's exactly what happened - pilot project of trainee nurses who went through shit load of psychology tests and training before employment. Ive actually just finished being mentored by one those nurses and she was amazing as a human being.
Anybody any idea why the project wasn't set as the standard?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
We are obviously a long way off getting anything like the full picture on this. Also, in terms of responsibility, this is of course entirely about Letby. But in terms of the 'what went wrong' question, my instincts are that this will not be the about screening of staff. Even without the inquiry there's a pretty clear timeline of non-interventions by management, through to actual hostility to the doctors. It screams managerialism, power and prioritising the position of the Trust at all costs (to the point that the Trust's reputation has now been trashed - and much more importantly has led to the deaths of further children). But we'll have to see where it goes beyond these broad brush strokes. Beyond the structural issues of Trusts and the rise of NHS managers, how much it turns out to be about the the choices and agency of individual bosses. I think it's a fair guess that professional hierarchies v managerial hierarchies will be in the mix too, with mangers seeking to make this a doctors v nurses thing. Anyway, I'm waffling, just suggesting that if the inquiry ultimately focuses on screening recruits to nursing, it will be missing the bigger issues. Ditto if it doesn't recommend strengthening the position of whistle blowers.
A bit random, but I heard a news item yesterday about the British Museum losing a large number of items to organised theft. There was similar trail of warnings and emails to managers, which were ignored. With much lower consequences, it all felt too familiar. And we all probably know issues from work or as union reps where bosses would actively prefer to punish complainants/whistle blowers, right through to the point where they are ultimately forced to sack (but pay off) the person in a senior position who has been stealing/sexually harassing/bullying etc.
A bit random, but I heard a news item yesterday about the British Museum losing a large number of items to organised theft. There was similar trail of warnings and emails to managers, which were ignored. With much lower consequences, it all felt too familiar. And we all probably know issues from work or as union reps where bosses would actively prefer to punish complainants/whistle blowers, right through to the point where they are ultimately forced to sack (but pay off) the person in a senior position who has been stealing/sexually harassing/bullying etc.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
As for overseeing; many GPs and others regularly kill their patients and that is tacitly acknowledged. It's at the other end of the patient age-range, but the cancer-ravaged and so on will often have their morphine dose upped to speed things along and end the suffering. Could that be monitored, should it be monitored?
As has been said, it seems the psycho-killer doctor or nurse exists but seems to be so rare as change is not needed in monitoring of healthcare professionals.
As has been said, it seems the psycho-killer doctor or nurse exists but seems to be so rare as change is not needed in monitoring of healthcare professionals.
Plumdaff
joy in people
I'm not discounting supervision and proportionate monitoring, but actually what is critical is systems for reporting and effectively dealing with not only the rare Shipman or Letby, but the common dangerously lazy nurse or incompetent surgeon. Our large bureaucracies seem to all be very shit at this.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Have you got any evidence for that, it's a bit of an urban myth in the general population tbh, medication is used for symptom relief and not for 'hastening death'.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
This was basically Shipman’s MO. Have you reported any of them to the police?
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Shipman's MO was the get the wills in his favour. The moment the lambos start zooming around I'll get on to the rozzers, rest assured.
Incorrect. He did that one time which was his undoing. The other times he got off playing god with diamorphine.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I will be there for that one time then.
So murder is only not ok if there’s a financial motive?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The problem with murder is that it's the one crime the police solve most of the time. If you're going to get rid of someone you need to actually put some thought into it if you don't want to serve time. And killing for money is such an obvious motive even the dimmest plod can work it out.So murder is only not ok if there’s a financial motive?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
It's a bit shocking you find that so surprising. People are alone loads with patients in health and social care. And all sorts of other places where they could cause harm to people. You're a bit losing the plot with this direction of thought.
With lots of evidence. If he’d stuck to playing god as an upstanding GP he’d probably have continued to get away with it.
My own suspicion as to his motive was that he was a diamorphine addict that needed reasons to get hold of quantities for his own use.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
Objective, or side effect?
To my understanding the use of ever greater pain relief is not for 'hastening death', it's just that it happens to be a side effect of the amount/power of mitigating X amount of pain.
Vets do it all the time, openly, and we thank them for it.
I'm certainly not suggesting that Letby was operating in some 'grey area' that we all avoid talking about - she's not not, she's simply a sadistic (and I'm happy to use that word, the cyber stalking of the bereaved parents is solid evidence that that she 'enjoyed' the effect of her actions) baby killer - but the idea that medicine does not involve death, and that medicine would be improved by building a wall between medicine and death, and that HCP's need to be psychologically tested to ensure that they are utterly opposed to death and to fight it it with every last breath, is simply foolish, and ignores reality.
(Which wasn't your point, but, you know...)
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, I have never come across HCPs using medication in doses large to hasten death, but only to relieve symptoms. I have heard it talked about outside the medical profession as if it's common practice, and sometime people in the medical profession jokingly say it, but I've never seen it or heard of it mentioned seriously. I think there is some very slight gray area though, but tbh I haven't looked into it and it's not my area of knowledge so wouldn't be too sure either way. It would be a very small number of people that find themselves in this position though; some GPs maybe, but often it's palliative care teams that deal with this either at the patient's home or in hospital.
Yeah, the second point is a massive, very interesting and important discussion, and is something medicine in (and the culture of) the UK (and western world to be simplistic) gets very wrong sometimes.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I’m not anti-euthanasia but surely it can’t be unsolicited?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Eh? Sure it can. Assisted suicide on the other hand. This link makes the difference clear Euthanasia and assisted suicide
Yes I know it can be. But Shipman could argue that’s what he was doing and apparently Bahnhof Strasse mates.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Easy. The NHS can't afford to be that picky - there's a staffing shortage already, and someone will be going "yebbut, a 1 in a million chance of a nutter doesn't mean we have to screen out loads of otherwise capable staff".
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