The Reform UK Party (latest nigel farage vehicle) is it to be laughed at or not

[danny la rouge]

Ok, let's drag it back to a narrative of the rioters being thick, working class, probably no job etc etc, job's a good un. Hilarious! Ad nauseum.

This has no material affect on working class antifascists who should just accept this with good grace.

Absolutely.

What people seem unable to see is that what they’re doing instead of fascists=bad is that they’re doing unemployed=bad. Which is superior middle class smearing not Antifascist.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

It demeans ALL working class people.

You can see margins and limits being tested everyone where middle class liberal discourse takes place.

Careful language is used certainly, a requirement exists to be precise that's its only those plebs that are being demonised. But, we all know what they'd really like to say. How long before we hear the managerial class bleat that 'some of my best friends are low information knuckle draggers'

The problem some of us had with the discourse around riots, by the way Spymaster was the careless lumping in of people who live in the forgotten places where most of the rioting took place or who went out onto the streets for a laugh/to have a go at the cops with the organised far right. The latter are thick, but certainly not exclusively working class, racists. The former are not.

Even you will see where that type of lazy pejorative middle class narrative leads...and has lead for the last 40 years.

 

[klang]

Guess you didn't read it properly then. The post quite clearly showed her real name. The Richard Tice's missus bit was added by me for the benefit of people who would be unaware of who she is and what that had to do with the topic. But that has already been explained, hasn't it? No, some people are just taking offense for the sake of nit picking because, as they have clearly explained, they believe that nit picking is an important part of the forum. Therefore I will continue to treat them with the complete contempt they deserve.

Fuck off.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Ok, let's drag it back to a narrative of the rioters being thick, working class, probably no job etc etc, job's a good un. Hilarious! Ad nauseum.

This narrative has no material affect on working class antifascists who should just accept it with good grace.

If we're doing this again, they're nasty racist scum. That's the point to be made. Their employment status and supposed intelligence levels are irrelevant.

But them being nasty racist scum does not mean we should necessarily cheer on the disproportionate reaction of the state and the courts. I think that point also needs to be made. The racist scum don't set our agenda, but neither does Kier Starmer.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm not sure that's true either.

As for calling people out for posting shit memes or, in this case shit and anti working class memes, that has always happened on here. Claims that this is some form of gate keeping or a new censorious turn are simply wide of the mark.

Like JimW, if I had a criticism of the board it is the decline in the level and amount of serious disucssion and argument and an increase in Twitter style posting. That's not a personal attack on the meme/hot take posters, it's a view on what I think has the most value and where U75 is at its best.

Whilst I don't want any poster to leave or feel bullied, I've not seen anything that constitutes it on this thread. I mean go and have a look at the 1,000 plus page war on the Brexit thread (talking of middle class left liberal disdain for working class people ) Some of the fighting on it is brutal with no quarter given. But whilst I think the positon of some posters is shit/wrong/counter productive to engaging seriously I've never once detected bullying from anybody.

I do think we need to improve the way we engage with each other on these boards. And I can see how relative newcomers might feel some of the let’s say “unskillful” engagement styles are directed solely at them. Having been here a quarter of a century, I can testify they are not.

I agree with you. I don’t want people to feel bullied.

However, nor do I want people to feel they are allowed get away with lazy liberal sneering. The kind of junk we see on Facebook: thinking sexism, ableism, classism, etc is OK “if it’s aimed at bad people”. Unfortunately some of the relatively new cohort are (occasionally) doing those things. And they need to be pulled up for them. However, the pulling up does need to be done more skilfully. That’s something we could learn as a whole. It’s not something only newcomers experience.

That said, sometimes we loser our tempers. We’re human.

 

[JimW]

skilfully

Buddha klaxon sounds, upaya-boy.

 

[danny la rouge]

Buddha klaxon sounds, upaya-boy.

Oops. It’s a fair cop, gov.

 

[Rob Ray]

But them being nasty racist scum does not mean we should necessarily cheer on the disproportionate reaction of the state and the courts. I think that point also needs to be made. The racist scum don't set our agenda, but neither does Kier Starmer.

Yep, it's much harder to argue BLM, JSO or Palestine Action prisoners should be free if we're simultaneously slapping our collective flippers for Tommeh's Tossers getting lengthy stretches.

 

[JimW]

Oops. It’s a fair cop, gov.

There's loads of sound advice in all that discourse.

 

[Boo Radley75]

grow up

 

[Boo Radley75]

Fuck off.

 

[HeAthen]

This being the sort of thing I'm talking about. The weird framing as Me vs Your Attempt To Push Me Out whenever it's brought up that maybe ongoing hostility to core values of the forum you've joined doesn't make for a good fit.

I'm not trying to push you out, and will be happy enough if you stay but you're also not going to remake this forum in your own image, and the two options are either to come to a negotiated position or not. In the latter case all stubbornly continuing to sit here and argue does is upset you and everyone else.

Says the prick that trotted out a list of individuals they think (erroneously) can't take criticism. Deluded or what.

 

[Rob Ray]

Says the prick that trotted out a list of individuals they think (erroneously) can't take criticism. Deluded or what.

I didn't list people who "can't take criticism" I listed the half dozen of you who all joined at the same time and play backing band to each other. And who, frankly, seem to wind each other up into this victim mentality we've been seeing play out.

Or am I wrong that you're ignoring Boo Radley's meme tantrum because he's on TeAm NoOB.

 

[danny la rouge]

Boo Radley75 give it a rest. Reflect on what’s been said to you.

 

[Boo Radley75]

Boo Radley75 give it a rest. Reflect on what’s been said to you.

What's being said to me? Oh yes. You wan't me to reflect on being called a sexist and told to fuck off.
Nah sorry, that's their problem, not mine. If they wan't me to stop with the memes, they can stop posting their pointless pile on, nit picking shit which deserves nothing more.

 

[danny la rouge]

What's being said to me? Oh yes. You wan't me to reflect on being called a sexist and told to fuck off.
Nah sorry, that's their problem, not mine. If they wan't me to stop with the memes, they can stop posting their pointless pile on, nit picking shit which deserves nothing more.

Yes, some people delivered the message badly. But the message is that sexism is still not ok when it’s directed at bad people. The message, when not weakened by poor delivery, is correct.

What some of your cohort might be experiencing is the shock of finding yourselves now on the relative right of the boards where before you were the relative left. The fact that you’re finding common cause with Spymaster is evidence of that. He’s a mate of mine. But he’s on the relative right of these boards.

You’ll get the hang of it.

Merry Christmas.

 

[ddraig]

*shit meme

grow up

 

[xenon]

The discussions around the riots and rioters was confused with the Concerns about Immigration thread. No problem calling those who actively took part in the riots as racist thugs. Some of them were certainly thick as pig shit too. The guy with the mask on but heavily tattood legs etc.

However, what was and is wrongheaded, patronising and totally counter productive is the tendancy to call anyone who has concerns about immigration as thick, racist, and defacto supporters of the riots. and there was a bit of that on the aformentioned thread. Some more or less,like: Why don't these people like all the lovely Polish shops. I don't understand racists, don't they like all the lovely food you can get now, if you have concerns about immigration, you're just a step or 2 away from wanting to burn hotels etc.

 

[krtek a houby]

This is not the way.

Please take some time to immerse yourself in the boards if you have the time, and you might get a better idea of why your approach is seen as combative.

Folks reacting further with memes and promises to continue in such a fashion are only doing themselves a disservice. I should know - I've been there and was rightly bollocked for it.

Look, we've had plenty of bad faith posters and returning nasty a.f. aggravators. Of which you are neither, and that's why people here are taking the time to explain why there might be issues with certain angles you take.

If you were aforementioned posters, you'd have been treated with a lot less patience and leeway.

Come on, you must see that this current approach isn't working?

It's ok to be wrong. I'm often pulled up on stuff and while it may be annoying, it's not a bad thing to step back a bit and take stock of what you've said versus what fellow posters are saying. I've learnt a lot here over the years and some of it has been tough to take on board, but that's down mostly to my arrogance and ego and not always down to those that pull me up.

 

[xenon]

Anyway as we're doing repeats, . I think Reform's ability to capture political disaffection will be limited. If they or what comes after, do more of the red, in red brown, something significantly beneificial on housing, then they will represent a far greater threat.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The discussions around the riots and rioters was confused with the Concerns about Immigration thread. No problem calling those who actively took part in the riots as racist thugs. Some of them were certainly thick as pig shit too. The guy with the mask on but heavily tattood legs etc.

However, what was and is wrongheaded, patronising and totally counter productive is the tendancy to call anyone who has concerns about immigration as thick, racist, supporting the riots etc and there was a bit of that on the aformentioned thread. Some more or less,like: Why don't these people like all the lovely Polish shops. I don't understand racists, don't they like all the lovely food you can get now.

I don't think many people did support the rioters. I disagree with you somewhat regarding anyone who did support the rioters. They can fuck the fuck off.

 

[xenon]

I don't think many people did support the rioters. I disagree with you somewhat regarding anyone who did support the rioters. They can fuck the fuck off.

Actually no, I've phrased it badly. Let me edit for clarification.

 

[PTK]

I think that there should be some sort of commentator on Urban 75 to give a brief guide every day to who said what to who.

 

[danny la rouge]

I think that there should be some sort of commentator on Urban 75 to give a brief guide every day to who said what to who.

Someone with a Geordie accent. Firky, maybe.

/runs

 

[PTK]

Anyway as we're doing repeats, . I think Reform's ability to capture political disaffection will be limited. If they or what comes after, do more of the red, in red brown, something significantly beneificial on housing, then they will represent a far greater threat.

Yes, good point. I think that populism may be defined as the right stealing some of the clothing of the left.

 

[xenon]

I don't think many people did support the rioters. I disagree with you somewhat regarding anyone who did support the rioters. They can fuck the fuck off.

That's what I'm saying. People with concerns about immigration != supporters of the rioters.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yes, good point. I think that populism may be defined as the right stealing some of the clothing of the left.

Yes, while much of the supposed 'left' has stripped off all said clothing and thrown it in the street.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

That's what I'm saying. People with concerns about immigration != supporters of the rioters.

Ah I see. Cool. Agreed.

 

[JimW]

I think that there should be some sort of commentator on Urban 75 to give a brief guide every day to who said what to who.

Christ no, it's tedious enough the first time round

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Actually no, I've phrased it badly. Let me edit for clarification.

Think you mean 'fuck off you prick, if you don't like it put me on ignore.'