The Independents Immigration lies....

[tbaldwin]

Quite an amusing front page from the Independent....There usual line on Immigration...."Its good for us anyone who says different is a nasty racist etc" trouble is they have just twisted facts reported by other papers....

Just 15,000 Poles were predicted to come by the govt....Its more like 600,000 or 1 Million....Funnily enough the good old Independent doesnt choose to focus on facts like that.....

 

[belboid]

good thing shity little englanders like you are always here to remind us then isnt it?

All praise tbaldwin!

 

[Bonfirelight]

im 100% against polish immigration tbh.

we played a team of poles in our 5 a side match on sunday and they utterly anihilated us. down with this sort of thing.
I want to play more fat drunks and less super quick polish supermen.

 

[Fruitloop]

Sir Digby Jones can totally go fuck himself, IMO:

http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article1220815.ece

 

[In Bloom]

You cannot blame migrants if they are prepared to come here and work for wages which, though they may seem low to us, are a lot higher than in their own country.

How about we blame you cunts for underpaying them and using it as an excuse to undercut us?

Digby Jones - biggest cunt of the 21st century.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Although I think tbaldwin talks crap on this issue I have to say that the fact that the Independent gave space on page 2 for "Sir" Digby Jones shows their liberalism for all it is. Middle class stuck up wankers who will say progressive stuff about certain things (the war, human rights etc) but when it comes down to working class action such as the pensions strike they are reactionary fuckers and all their middle class prejudices come out.

 

[tarannau]

Repetitive hackneyed bollocks

You know, for most posters it is possible to get by without mentioning 'liberals/liberalism' or 'immigration' in every thread...

 

[FreddyB]

Repetitive hackneyed bollocks

You know, for most posters it is possible to get by without mentioning 'liberals/liberalism' or 'immigration' in every thread...

To be fair a thread about immigration is bound to have the word immigration in the odd post and liberalism is a bit hard to ignore when you're talking about the media.

 

[cockneyrebel]

Is the Independent not a paper with liberal politics?

 

[Fruitloop]

Indeed it is. Still, to be told that 'we' need to get of our backsides and work for much lower wages by multi-millionaire 'Sir' Digby Cuntface is about as irritating as can possibly be envisaged.

 

[Giles]

If these people are willing to come over here and do jobs that locals can't be bothered with, I don't mind at all.

And most of the Polish girls who seem to be working in just about every bar and cafe that I visit in London are really pretty as well, which is an added bonus!

As usual, the market will soon find a level for wages: the Poles etc living over here have the same living costs as Brits, so they won't work for much less than Brits - if they do, they won't be able to afford to live here for long.

Giles..

 

[tbaldwin]

To be fair a thread about immigration is bound to have the word immigration in the odd post and liberalism is a bit hard to ignore when you're talking about the media.

The lies that people like the Independent consistently come out with fool some people..But they dont fool all the people all of the time....

Its ridiculous the way they have had a go at the tabloids on immigration again......And twist the facts to fit their own agenda...

 

[Hawkeye Pearce]

I tend to agree with cockney on this. The independent is middle class liberalism's paper you are not going to get a pro-working class line from any of the mainstream papers. The debate is constructed by all shades of the media in the terms the political elite conduct it. Immigration is favoured by those such as Jones as they know that having hundreds of thousands of eastern european migrants so desperate for work that they'll work for far less than a british citizen. The liberals will then say that it is "good for the economy" which is meant to make everybody happy but in reality is total shite as most people just manage to get by even when the economy is growing but the bosses (Jones and his ilk) rake it in and are able to use the vast reserve of labour as a tool to depress wages. The recent rise in unemployment is also good for them as it means they have an excuse to squeeze wages even further. The news media then pop up and say that "immigrants are depressing wages" as if every pole that came over had his finger on a button that controlled this. In reality it is the bosses doing this and using the immigration issue as a cover.

The other side of this debate in the mainstream media is that found in the pages of the sun,mail, sexpress, star, telegraph, times etc. They deliberately conflate issues of asylum/immigration and ethnicity in order to create scary headlines and sell more papers by appealing to popular prejedices that they themselves contribute to. The liberals can't respond to this in any other way than the pro business argument as they fear and loathe the working class as much as any tory does but just pretend not to.

 

[nino_savatte]

The lies that people like the Independent consistently come out with fool some people..But they dont fool all the people all of the time....

Its ridiculous the way they have had a go at the tabloids on immigration again......And twist the facts to fit their own agenda...

You have much to learn about the nature of the media, Baudouin me auld fruit.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Sorry, what was the actual lie here?

 

[tbaldwin]

Sorry, what was the actual lie here?

Good question FM.....

What the independent have done is a classic bit of spin to fit in with their agenda.....
They criticise the Sun for a story on "migrants getting brits pay slashed by 50%" saying the Sun had claimed "Earnings of British builders and other manual workers have slumped by 50% as a flood of east European migrants drive down wages"
What the Sun story actually commented on was a statement by a Southampton MP John Denham which said this had happened in THAT AREA...... They claim the reality in average earnings show this to be untrue...completely twisting the sun story and ignoring what had actually been said.....

On a story from the Daily Star that claimed the UK could be swamped by 145,000 new immigrants from Rumania and Bulgaria they claim its contradicted by the REALITY?????????????? that the IPPR estimates there will only be 56,000........ A pile of shit......Both are estimates the reality is nobody knows for sure....
Predictions by the govt that only around 15,000 poles would want to work in the UK just make the whole Liberal arguement look as ridiculous as its always been...

 

[Blackmushroom]

Are they "swamping" us?

 

[Giles]

Are they "swamping" us?

I notice a lot of East Europeans working in places around London, but I don't feel "swamped" in any way.

They aren't so different to most Brits in terms of culture etc, after all.

Giles..

 

[tbaldwin]

Are they "swamping" us?

I wouldnt say so....But the issue here is the Independent moralising about other papers lying and twisting facts to suit their agendas and doing exactly the same thing....

 

[nino_savatte]

Worra joker!

 

[Hawkeye Pearce]

Every paper is fundamentally dancing to the same tune anyway. None of them are "objective" as they claim to be and all merely reflect the agendas of the parties they back or the (rich) people who own them. Even the guardian which is owned by a non-profit trust often merely parrots whatever new labour is coming out with.

 

[laptop]

Sorry, what was the actual lie here?

Er, these:

I particualarly liked "HIV children bringing timebomb to Britain".

Contaminating our esssential bodily fluidsss, they are.

All haild our prophet tbaldwin! Rivers of blood!

 

[Blackmushroom]

I wouldnt say so....But the issue here is the Independent moralising about other papers lying and twisting facts to suit their agendas and doing exactly the same thing....

I was being facetious I remember Thatcher saying that about immigrants during the 1979 general election campaign.

But back to your point, have you ever believed anything any paper has said about anything?

They preach to their choirs. They print the news that their readers want to hear.

 

[nino_savatte]

Enoch Powell, thou shouldst be living at this hour.

 

[In Bloom]

If these people are willing to come over here and do jobs that locals can't be bothered with, I don't mind at all.

And most of the Polish girls who seem to be working in just about every bar and cafe that I visit in London are really pretty as well, which is an added bonus!

As usual, the market will soon find a level for wages: the Poles etc living over here have the same living costs as Brits, so they won't work for much less than Brits - if they do, they won't be able to afford to live here for long.

Yep, because the migrants living in substandard accomodation in highly insecure jobs on crap money have a lot of bargaining power when it comes to this kind of thing, at least enough for the magical powers of the market to make things all okay

 

[Blackmushroom]

Enoch Powell, thou shouldst be living at this hour.

But what do you expect? Its a competitive market for political ideas. The left is losing popularity in white working class areas to the BNP. The BNP has a very strong anti-immigrant policy which appeals to those voters. How do you stop your party from being marginalised into oblivion by the BNP with white working class voters?

Some elements of the left in order to survive and maintain relevance with the white working class, who feel they've been let down by mainstream political parties, are adopting the clothing of the BNP. They claim that they're against mass immigration because it depresses working class wages and profits the bosses at the expense of the workers, uinlike the BNP who are against immigrants because of cultural issues. It reminds me of New labour realising that they'd be in opposition forever unless they became more right wing like the Tories. It worked for them.

 

[editor]

Yes, those bloody Poles coming over here and working damn hard, doing the jobs that no one wants to do and bringing over their highly skilled tradesmen who don't rip off their customers like some of the the good old British workers!

Ruddy cheek!

And who do they think they were volunterring to fly Spitfires in WW2, eh?

Outrageous!

 

[tbaldwin]

Its not just that white working class people are against mass migration it Black and Asian people as well...

And it isnt about elements of the Left trying to be relevant to the white working class...Its about recognising the impact mass migration has Internationally and on working class people competing for Jobs and Housing...
The Liberal Left have a shameful record on the issue of supporting free market migration policies.

 

[tbaldwin]

Yes, those bloody Poles coming over here and working damn hard, doing the jobs that no one wants to do and bringing over their highly skilled tradesmen who don't rip off their customers like some of the the good old British workers!

Ruddy cheek!

And who do they think they were volunterring to fly Spitfires in WW2, eh?

Outrageous!

Ripping off their customers eh.....Had a bit of trouble with getting paid help at Urban mansions?

 

[trashpony]

Yes, those bloody Poles coming over here and working damn hard, doing the jobs that no one wants to do and bringing over their highly skilled tradesmen who don't rip off their customers like some of the the good old British workers!

Ruddy cheek!

And who do they think they were volunterring to fly Spitfires in WW2, eh?

Outrageous!

I'm reading a book at the moment which is about Poles immigrants to the UK after WWII - tragically the reaction they got was not dissimilar to some of the views being bandied about at the minute