The grand tory 'civil war' thread

[tim]

You aren't the first person to mention this, I've even read a few people suggesting that Blairites are going to go into coalition with the Tories after the referendum. It's all just total nonsense.

Doesn't feel so at the moment, given viciousness of the Tory attacks on each other and the unwillingness in much of the PLP to unite behind Corbyn. The Social Conservative Party maybe closer than you think.

 

[kebabking]

Cameron's too left wing for them you think?

more that Corbyn isn't toxic enough, and Cameron is a little too toxic. if Labour started consistantly polling in the 25-30% bracket with Corbyns personal polls nearing those of Jimmy Savile then perhaps some of the Blairites might cross the floor, but for the moment its better to watch the tories tear themselves apart and to see what the forthcoming rows within Labour bring.

if the LD's were in the low 20's or above i wouldn't be surprised if he made them an offer - he could after all present himself as the great European - and it would nulify his most acidic awkward squad.

 

[Sprocket.]

Doesn't feel so at the moment, given viciousness of the Tory attacks on each other and the unwillingness in much of the PLP to unite behind Corbyn. The Social Conservative Party maybe closer than you think.

Is Nationalist Social Democratic Party a step too far?

 

[J Ed]

No one is going to hitch their wagon to Cameron's dying days.

 

[two sheds]

Could he not stay on 'to guide us through these difficult times'? It would be the perfect scapegoat for cutting the NHS, council money, benefits ...

 

[teqniq]

Well this is all going swimmingly eh? Perhaps a tad more petrol wouldn't go amiss but anyway after the dust has settled and the bloodstains have been cleaned up what's the chances of the survivors going to the country for a mandate?

 

[kebabking]

Well this is all going swimmingly eh? Perhaps a tad more petrol wouldn't go amiss but anyway after the dust has settled and the bloodstains have been cleaned up what's the chances of the survivors going to the country for a mandate?

from where i sit - middle England, Mondeo Man, Worcester Woman etc... absolutely bog all.

there, from local chats/media, appears to be open warfare in the Tory party: not between in and out particularly, but between grass roots and wider leadership over the complete mess that the cabinet have made of the ref campaigns. there is real anger over how the senior party have screwed the pooch only a year after winning an election for the first time in 20-odd years. i think that the concern would be that the party at a constituancy level would just not turn up.

personally i don't see Labour pushing for it either, it simply doesn't have the party infrastructure, the money, the candidates or the policy framework to fight and win an election.

 

[J Ed]

from where i sit - middle England, Mondeo Man, Worcester Woman etc... absolutely bog all.

there, from local chats/media, appears to be open warfare in the Tory party: not between in and out particularly, but between grass roots and wider leadership over the complete mess that the cabinet have made of the ref campaigns. there is real anger over how the senior party have screwed the pooch only a year after winning an election for the first time in 20-odd years. i think that the concern would be that the party at a constituancy level would just not turn up.

personally i don't see Labour pushing for it either, it simply doesn't have the party infrastructure, the money, the candidates or the policy framework to fight and win an election.

I don't actually know any Tory activists but all of them on twitter seem to hate Cameron's guts atm

 

[teqniq]

Oh well I suppose I should be grateful that they're tearing themselves apart and i am! but I want my cake and eat it too. I want all of it and I want it now.

 

[laptop]

Is Nationalist Social Democratic Party a step too far?

And what with Tories claiming to be the Workers' Party...

 

[teqniq]

This could also go on the referendum thread but it'll do here too

David Cameron’s own MPs turn on him ahead of EU referendum

 

[teqniq]

Margaret Thatcher’s former defence chief quits Tory party over David Cameron's 'tirade of fear' in EU campaign

 

[Rob Ray]

Margaret Thatcher’s former defence chief quits Tory party over David Cameron's 'tirade of fear' in EU campaign

Oh is it "get our sleepers out to show how the other side is falling apart" time already? My how the months have flown.

EU referendum: Respected Tory MP Sarah Wollaston quits Leave campaign over 'false' NHS claims

 

[kebabking]

Margaret Thatcher’s former defence chief quits Tory party over David Cameron's 'tirade of fear' in EU campaign

i'm not entirely convinced that John Nott is regarded as a wise old hand by anyone in the tory party - it doesn't surpise me that he's an outer given that the pinnacle of his career was to bring about an entirely foreseeable disaster through short-sighted idiocy that relied on unicorns and fairy dust to have a hope in hell of not being a disaster...

if the loon wing of the tory party want him, then more fool them.

 

[hot air baboon]

....seems pretty unbelievable the remain campaign want to fill the make-or-break home straight of the campaign with a US style personalised and wholly negative shit fight - can't see that as being anything but a turn-off to all the waverers, neutrals & don't knows ...aside from the fact Johnson seems to have effortlessly shrugged off all the previous attempts to trash his reputation

EU referendum: 'Panicked' Remain camp plans to 'take out Boris' as opinion polls swing in Brexit campaign's favour

Downing Street is “panicked” over the EU referendum amid growing internal signs that support for the Leave campaign is surging.

It has led to a marked change in strategy, with the campaign to keep Britain in the EU now orchestrating a series of highly personal attacks on Boris Johnson, one of the leaders of the Leave campaign. David Cameron’s team has adopted a “take out Boris strategy” by allowing Tory Cabinet minister to claim he only backed a Brexit in order to further his ambition to be Prime Minister...

 

[laptop]

....seems pretty unbelievable the remain campaign want to fill the make-or-break home straight of the campaign with a US style personalised and wholly negative shit fight - can't see that as being anything but a turn-off to all the waverers, neutrals & don't knows ...aside from the fact Johnson seems to have effortlessly shrugged off all the previous attempts to trash his reputation

EU referendum: 'Panicked' Remain camp plans to 'take out Boris' as opinion polls swing in Brexit campaign's favour

Downing Street is “panicked” over the EU referendum amid growing internal signs that support for the Leave campaign is surging.

It has led to a marked change in strategy, with the campaign to keep Britain in the EU now orchestrating a series of highly personal attacks on Boris Johnson, one of the leaders of the Leave campaign. David Cameron’s team has adopted a “take out Boris strategy” by allowing Tory Cabinet minister to claim he only backed a Brexit in order to further his ambition to be Prime Minister...

Yabbut that's the Telegraph trying to take out Cameron...

 

[brogdale]

 

[J Ed]

and now

EU referendum live: 57 Tory MPs 'would vote down' Osborne's Brexit budget

57 Tory MPs say they would vote against Osborne's 'absurd' emergency budget plans
Here is the statement signed today by 57 Tory MPs saying they would vote against George Osborne’s proposed post-Brexit emergency budget. It has been issued by Vote Leave.

It says:

We find it incredible that the chancellor could seriously be threatening to renege on so many manifesto pledges. It is absurd to say that if people vote to take back control from the EU that he would want to punish them in this way. We do not believe that he would find it possible to get support in parliament for these proposals to cut the NHS, our police forces and our schools.

If the chancellor is serious then we cannot possibly allow this to go ahead. It would be unnecessary, wrong and a rejection of the platform on which we all stood. If he were to proceed with these proposals, the chancellor’s position would become untenable.

This is a blatant attempt to talk down the market and the country. The chancellor risks doing damage to the British economy in his bid to win this political campaign.

And here is the list of the 57 MPs. It does not include government ministers backing Vote Leave, or Boris Johnson.

1. Iain Duncan Smith
2. Liam Fox
3. Cheryl Gillan
4. David Jones
5. Owen Paterson
6. John Redwood
7. Sir Gerald Howarth
8. Tim Loughton
9. Crispin Blunt
10. Sir William Cash
11. Bernard Jenkin
12. Julian Lewis
13. Adam Afriyie
14. Nigel Adams
15. Lucy Allan
16. Steve Baker
17. Bob Blackman
18. Peter Bone
19. Andrew Bridgen
20. David Burrowes
21. Maria Caulfield
22. Christopher Chope
23. Chris Davies
24. Philip Davies
25. David TC Davies
26. Nadine Dorries
27. Steve Double
28. Richard Drax
29. Nigel Evans
30. Michael Fabricant
31. Marcus Fysh
32. Chris Green
33. Rebecca Harris
34. Gordon Henderson
35. Philip Hollobone
36. Adam Holloway
37. Kwasi Kwarteng
38. Jonathan Lord
39. Craig Mackinlay
40. Anne Main
41. Karl McCartney
42. Nigel Mills
43. Anne Marie Morris
44. Sheryl Murray
45. David Nuttall
46. Matthew Offord
47. Andrew Percy
48. Tom Pursglove
49. Jacob Rees-Mogg
50. Andrew Rosindell
51. Henry Smith
52. Derek Thomas
53. Anne Marie Trevelyan
54. Martin Vickers
55. David Warburton
56. Bill Wiggin
57. William Wrag

To me this does not look like a government that will be able to hold together for long after the referendum regardless of outcome, except in the near impossible event of a clear victory for Remain.

 

[Pickman's model]

i'm not entirely convinced that John Nott is regarded as a wise old hand by anyone in the tory party - it doesn't surpise me that he's an outer given that the pinnacle of his career was to bring about an entirely foreseeable disaster through short-sighted idiocy that relied on unicorns and fairy dust to have a hope in hell of not being a disaster...

if the loon wing of the tory party want him, then more fool them.

All politicians in their dotage are wise elder statesmen. See e.g. Richard milhous nixon

 

[Pickman's model]

Yabbut that's the Telegraph trying to take out Cameron...

Where's a drone when you need one?

 

[nino_savatte]

Osborne's really fond of his 'emergency' budgets, isn't he? It contributes to the language of crisis that this government has created to convince people of the need for austerity. Thatcher did exactly the same thing, but as Alexei Sayle once observed, this government is nothing but a really bad Thatcherite tribute band.

 

[brogdale]

and now

EU referendum live: 57 Tory MPs 'would vote down' Osborne's Brexit budget


To me this does not look like a government that will be able to hold together for long after the referendum regardless of outcome, except in the near impossible event of a clear victory for Remain.

They're certainly not holding together in advance of it!
Interesting, isn't it, that faced with an actual crisis Chancellor Darling actually had to respond in the polar opposite macro-economic manner; he increased public borrowing and cut VAT to stimulate demand. Osborne can't even lie well.

 

[gosub]

and now

EU referendum live: 57 Tory MPs 'would vote down' Osborne's Brexit budget


To me this does not look like a government that will be able to hold together for long after the referendum regardless of outcome, except in the near impossible event of a clear victory for Remain.

The magic number to trigger a Leadership challenge was and is 50.

 

[brogdale]

The magic number to trigger a Leadership challenge was and is 50.

Heinz could be his nemesis!

 

[brogdale]

Hmmm interesting murmurings from North of the border...

Scottish Tories to split from UK party if Boris Johnson becomes leader - The Courier

Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson will declare independence from her UK party if Boris Johnson becomes its leader, The Courier can reveal.

Is this new(s)?

 

[two sheds]

Shouldn't that be 'Scottish Tory to split ... "?

 

[Sue]

Shouldn't that be 'Scottish Tory to split ... "?

They may only have one Westminster MP but they've also got 31 MSPs.

 

[two sheds]

I went to 'like' that then thought the better of it

 

[brogdale]

 

[brogdale]

Javid appeared quite unhinged on Marr...