"The British people expressed their view very clearly on 23rd June"

[B.I.G]

wealth

Next

So you argue that wealth of the working class is an excuse for them being racist? Great.

Next.

 

[maomao]

Someone not agreeing with your point of view is as offensive as calling them a prick?

If unemployment is 50 percent among the youth in a location and so they vote UKIP? How is that not the same as poor = right wing? What is an economic factor that doesn't equal poverty?

See, youve done it again. I say lies and misrepresentation are offensive. You repeat it back as me suggesting disagreement is offensive. There is absolutely no point discussing anything with you when you're so fundamentally dishonest.

 

[B.I.G]

See, youve done it again. I say lies and misrepresentation are offensive. You repeat it back as me suggesting disagreement is offensive. There is absolutely no point discussing anything with you when you're so fundamentally dishonest.

You say lies and misrepresenation where there is only disagreement. But it seems obvious you don't want to consider for a moment my point of view.

 

[Pickman's model]

How do you square "economic" factors being an excuse for people voting UKIP, if young people did in fact vote remain in areas of high youth employment?

Very easily

Next

 

[B.I.G]

Very easily

Next

Good for you. Another +1 on that post count of yours.

 

[Pickman's model]

So you argue that wealth of the working class is an excuse for them being racist? Great.

Next.

you thick twat. I was answering the question 'what is an economic factor that isn't poverty'

 

[B.I.G]

you thick twat. I was answering the question 'what is an economic factor that isn't poverty'

How literal of you followed by he trademark insult. Still another +1 to the post count for you.

 

[Pickman's model]

Good for you. Another +1 on that post count of yours.

Yeh? You asked how I squared it. What other sort of answer did you anticipate to your question?

 

[B.I.G]

Yeh? You asked how I squared it. What other sort of answer did you anticipate to your question?

With another +1 post obv.

 

[Pickman's model]

How literal of you followed by he trademark insult. Still another +1 to the post count for you.

Again, you ask a question without apparently giving any thought to the answers you might receive. And then deriding those answers you receive. This doesn't make you look clever but stupid.

 

[B.I.G]

Again, you ask a question without apparently giving any thought to the answers you might receive. And then deriding those answers you receive. This doesn't make you look clever but stupid.

I have learnt one thing from Urban. The hard left seem as opposed to the EU as those on the hard right and seeminly for the same ill-thought out reasons. Classic horseshoe theory thanks urban.

 

[Pickman's model]

How do you square "economic" factors being an excuse for people voting UKIP, if young people did in fact vote remain in areas of high youth employment?

This question makes no sense, you're comparing apples ("people voting UKIP") and oranges ("young people voting remain in areas of high youth unemployment").

 

[B.I.G]

This question makes no sense, you're comparing apples ("people voting UKIP") and oranges ("young people voting remain in areas of high youth unemployment").

It does too make sense try.

 

[Pickman's model]

I have learnt one thing from Urban. The hard left seem as opposed to the EU as those on the hard right and seeminly for the same ill-thought out reasons. Classic horseshoe theory thanks urban.

If that's what you've learned you've misunderstood what you've read.

 

[B.I.G]

If that's what you've learned you've misunderstood what you've read.

Of course I learnt about your +1 fetish too.

 

[Pickman's model]

It does too make sense try.

No, it doesn't - the question makes no sense. Try answering it yourself and you'll see

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course I learnt about your +1 fetish too.

There is no +1 fetish outside the sewer of your mind

 

[B.I.G]

There is no +1 fetish outside the sewer of your mind

If you say so.

 

[danny la rouge]

Do a search. People are happy enough to search to prove me wrong.

That's not how it works: you make a claim, you back it up. That's the most important thing, so do it now if you want further interaction.

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course I learnt about your +1 fetish too.

What makes you say ukip is hard right, and what do you understand by the term?

 

[B.I.G]

What makes you say ukip is hard right, and what do you understand by the term?

I didn't say that.

 

[Pickman's model]

I have learnt one thing from Urban. The hard left seem as opposed to the EU as those on the hard right and seeminly for the same ill-thought out reasons. Classic horseshoe theory thanks urban.

You've farted on and on about ukip so when you say hard right who else do you mean but ukip?

 

[Pickman's model]

I didn't say that.

So who do you mean by hard right?

 

[Pickman's model]

That's shut you up B.I.G

 

[Pickman's model]

I didn't say that.

 

[B.I.G]

+4

 

[newbie]

For a start I don't think there’s any comparison between labour, one of the two forces that are responsible for making the world go round, and "a social movement”.

there's a strong connection, as Pride makes clear.

Second what do you mean by “a social movement”,

people organising, in 2016/2017 with all that implies, for explicitly political purposes. Maybe "social movement” isn't the right term, I dk. I vaguely remember a referendum run-up conversation about the right creating an organised, somewhat insurgent, pro-brexit network of supporters. Quite successfully as it turned out.

I’m a member of the union, there are probably individual members with racist opinions within should I leave the union because of them? And what if a member gets in trouble because they make a racist/sexist remark, should the union not defend them? And what about past social movements? Did they consist only of non-racist, non-sexism, non-homophobic members?

there's differences between workforce related unions and people grouping together because of shared political outlook.

Third you claim that the people quoted in the piece are “specific racists” (what’s a non-specific racist BTW?), but only one identifies as a racist. Some of the others may voice racist opinions does that make them racists for now and forever? We have to cast them out? People opinions can't change? And doesn't struggle and solidarity change peoples' opinions?

to avoid misunderstandings I tried hard to ensure there was no hint that anyone other than those quoted could be considered to be racists, the description is specific to them personally.

Who is the We that casts them out? I trust there's a majority of We, else it might be We that is purged.

Are those quotes addressed to the entire w/c or just the white male bit? They don't seem to address w/c BME people living in Rochdale or anywhere else, including those where you live if you're in a Brexit heartland. What message does following the working class wherever it goes send to them?

There's a right-wing political push going on. You appear to be proposing "we should follow that" because there's a substantial w/c component to it. Crowd following, really?

How far does the abstract political ideal- "we should follow that" outweigh personal choice and responsibility?

 

[Pickman's model]

+4

The only trousers you wear, I hear

 

[redsquirrel]

there's a strong connection, as Pride makes clear.

I'm sorry but this is gibberish to me. When I've talked about labour on this thread that means the proletariat as a whole, not a social movement.

there's differences between workforce related unions and people grouping together because of shared political outlook.

Is there? Always? And you've now introduced another requirement into your social movement, a 'shared political outlook'

to avoid misunderstandings I tried hard to ensure there was no hint that anyone other than those quoted could be considered to be racists, the description is specific to them personally.

Which of the people quoted in that piece. Only a single one identifies as a racist.

The level of anger is striking. Zoe, 55, is a carer and works with disabled people. She is furious about what has become of Rochdale’s market, which a year ago left its longstanding home in the town’s exchange building and is now opposite the metro stop. “It’s full of tat and loads of rabbit-hutch stalls run by Muslims with their stuff.”

Zoe's comment is certainly pretty crude stereotyping, it could be racist. Is that it? Is she a racist? Is that how racism works, you're either a racist or a non-racist?

Who is the We that casts them out? I trust there's a majority of We, else it might be We that is purged.

That's what I'm asking you. You're then one claiming these people are racists.

Are those quotes addressed to the entire w/c or just the white male bit? They don't seem to address w/c BME people living in Rochdale or anywhere else, including those where you live if you're in a Brexit heartland.

They're addressed to you.

What message does following the working class wherever it goes send to them?

There's a right-wing political push going on. You appear to be proposing "we should follow that" because there's a substantial w/c component to it. Crowd following, really?

How far does the abstract political ideal- "we should follow that" outweigh personal choice and responsibility?

I'm sorry but this is utter bullshit. I've argued none of these things. This is precisely the type of crap that is poisoning P&P. You've dressed it up more nicely but actually your post contains a lot of the same shit as B.I.Gs crap.

 

[B.I.G]

I'm sorry but this is gibberish to me. When I've talked about labour on this thread that means the proletariat as a whole, not a social movement.

Is there? Always? And you've now introduced another requirement into your social movement, a 'shared political outlook'

Which of the people quoted in that piece. Only a single one identifies as a racist.

Zoe's comment is certainly pretty crude stereotyping, it could be racist. Is that it? Is she a racist? Is that how racism works, you're either a racist or a non-racist?

That's what I'm asking you. You're then one claiming these people are racists.

They're addressed to you.

I'm sorry but this is utter bullshit. I've argued none of these things. This is precisely the type of crap that is poisoning P&P. You've dressed it up more nicely but actually your post contains a lot of the same shit as B.I.Gs crap.

There is a forum for theory, maybe you could make a little area there for people that agree with each other and discuss minutiae of political differences.