"The British people expressed their view very clearly on 23rd June"

[redsquirrel]

wherever it goes? I asked you on another thread about being in a social movement with specific, self-identified, racists but didn't get a response. Isn't that an important question?

Apologises I meant to but got distracted by other stuff and then forgot to response. Would you rather I respond here or on the other thread?

 

[newbie]

Apologises I meant to but got distracted by other stuff and then forgot to response. Would you rather I respond here or on the other thread?

np. the central question- wherever it goes? - is here, so here I guess.

 

[Pickman's model]

Apologises I meant to

You are yoda and I claim my £5

 

[redsquirrel]

I asked you on another thread about being in a social movement with specific, self-identified, racists but didn't get a response. Isn't that an important question?

Well I'm sorry but I have to say I think the question is a bit of a 'how long have you been beating your wife’ one.

For a start I don't think there’s any comparison between labour, one of the two forces that are responsible for making the world go round, and "a social movement”.

Second what do you mean by “a social movement”, I’m a member of the union, there are probably individual members with racist opinions within should I leave the union because of them? And what if a member gets in trouble because they make a racist/sexist remark, should the union not defend them? And what about past social movements? Did they consist only of non-racist, non-sexism, non-homophobic members?

Third you claim that the people quoted in the piece are “specific racists” (what’s a non-specific racist BTW?), but only one identifies as a racist. Some of the others may voice racist opinions does that make them racists for now and forever? We have to cast them out? People opinions can't change? And doesn't struggle and solidarity change peoples' opinions?

Overall I think BA and Marty Glaberman sum this up better than I can

This is the thing, some people really do expect the w/c to be some perfectly formed group with perfectly correct politics (no sexism, no racism etc) before getting involved in any struggle - despite their own dogma explicitly arguing that it's through struggle that peoples attitudes are changed. You get the sense that for a few people this is their first glimpse of the w/c in all it's rowdy un-pc glory and they don't like what they're seeing one bit. (and you can bet your last dollar there were french workers arguing for job protection yesterdy on that perfect black thursday).

It's essential to reject the idea that nothing can happen until white workers are no longer racist. I don't know what anybody thinks the Russian workers in 1917 were. They were sexist. They were nationalist. A lot of them were under the thumb of the church. But they made a goddamn revolution that began to change them. Whether there's a social explosion or not doesn't depend on any formal attitudes or supporting this particular organisation or that particular organisation.

Or if you want a more fun visual version of the above, go watch Pride

 

[B.I.G]

By whom, when? Links required.

Do a search. People are happy enough to search to prove me wrong.

 

[B.I.G]

As people get poorer they cannot afford to buy their own homes but they still need affordable good quaility & secure housing. They would probably be more likely to vote for a party that builds council houses with controlled rents than a party that gives tax advantages to scum landlords.

That would be certainly very nice. I don't think it would transpire though.

 

[B.I.G]

You haven't been told any such thing. You're just a lying, needling prick.

More classic urban. Repeatedly been told there are "economic" factors for people voting UKIP.

 

[maomao]

More classic urban. Repeatedly been told there are "economic" factors for people voting UKIP.

Which is rather a long way from the sentence you posted. You're a wind up merchant. Same bullshit you were doing on the Romford thread. Trying to see how offensive you can get away with being without actually breaking any rules.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Do a search. People are happy enough to search to prove me wrong.

Searching for non-existent stuff can take some time; people may have better things to do?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Pickman's model]

Why wouldn't there be? The one thing I have been told most on Urban is that as people get poorer they become more right wing.

Who has been saying this?

 

[B.I.G]

How does the joke go? What did the hard left say to the soft left? You're just a lying, needling prick.

How evocative of your soul

 

[B.I.G]

Which is rather a long way from the sentence you posted. You're a wind up merchant. Same bullshit you were doing on the Romford thread. Trying to see how offensive you can get away with being without actually breaking any rules.

Really. Or do I know more about Romford than you and you take it personally. Hope of one if the worst Tory MPs. A severe anti-EU area and in the last 15 years a bit BNP.

But yeah Romford is great. And not an excessively white shithole.

 

[maomao]

How does the joke go? What did the hard left say to the soft left? You're just a lying, needling prick.

How evocative of your soul

The first two adjectives are demonstrably true. The final noun is merely my opinion.

 

[B.I.G]

Which is rather a long way from the sentence you posted. You're a wind up merchant. Same bullshit you were doing on the Romford thread. Trying to see how offensive you can get away with being without actually breaking any rules.

Economic factors = poor.

UKIP = right wing.

 

[maomao]

Really. Or do I know more about Romford than you and you take it personally. Hope of one if the worst Tory MPs. A severe anti-EU area and in the last 15 years a bit BNP.

But yeah Romford is great. And not an excessively white shithole.

Or hideously white as you said before. What's your remedy for excessive whiteness?

 

[B.I.G]

The first two adjectives are demonstrably true. The final noun is merely my opinion.

An unpleasant opinion nonetheless. Did I insult you?

 

[B.I.G]

Or hideously white as you said before. What's your remedy for excessive whiteness?

I can't make them less racist. Sadly.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

More classic urban. Repeatedly been told there are "economic" factors for people voting UKIP.

You do realise that these two statements are not the same?

Why wouldn't there be? The one thing I have been told most on Urban is that as people get poorer they become more right wing.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[B.I.G]

You do realise that these two statements are not the same?



Cheers - Louis MacNeice

They are similar enough to mean the same thing.

 

[maomao]

An unpleasant opinion nonetheless. Did I insult you?

I think you've insulted just about everyone with your approach to the argument. Being lied about and misrepresented is offensive.

 

[Ted Striker]

Well yes. So can he do anything in the next couple of years. Will he be a player in all this? He should be a busted flush & yet he appears not to be.

The biggest crime of the current era of Trump/Brexit/Corbyn is to put us in a situation that we are all, to a man, though at differing levels of denial, on an inexorable path towards 180'ing towards our only saviour. The only thing prevent the inevitable is time and people's biligerence towards the obvious.

Guardian headline within 5 years: Come Back Tony, All is Forgiven...

 

[maomao]

They are similar enough to mean the same thing.

They're not and even the slightly more palatable sentence is a mangling of what was actually said.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

They are similar enough to mean the same thing.

No they are not. They're not even close. If you really think they are then perhaps casting an eye over a couple of those books you're so scared off wouldn't go amiss. If it's just a bit of wind up, some banter...well have fun, then at least one person will get something out of your contribution to this thread.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[B.I.G]

I think you've insulted just about everyone with your approach to the argument. Being lied about and misrepresented is offensive.

Someone not agreeing with your point of view is as offensive as calling them a prick?

If unemployment is 50 percent among the youth in a location and so they vote UKIP? How is that not the same as poor = right wing? What is an economic factor that doesn't equal poverty?

 

[B.I.G]

No they are not. They're not even close. If you really think they are then perhaps casting an eye over a couple of those books you're so scared off wouldn't go amiss. If it's just a bit of wind up, some banter...well have fun, then at least one person will get something out of your contribution to this thread.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Alternatively, I mean it and you are really wrong about the situation, which would explain the massive lurch to the right in the country since the conservatives got back into power.

 

[Pickman's model]

Someone not agreeing with your point of view is as offensive as calling them a prick?

If unemployment is 50 percent among the youth in a location and so they vote UKIP? How is that not the same as poor = right wing? What is an economic factor that doesn't equal poverty?

If young unemployed people predominantly vote, as you declare, ukip, how do you square that with the overwhelming majority of young people voting remain?

 

[Pickman's model]

Someone not agreeing with your point of view is as offensive as calling them a prick?

If unemployment is 50 percent among the youth in a location and so they vote UKIP? How is that not the same as poor = right wing? What is an economic factor that doesn't equal poverty?

wealth

Next

 

[tim]

Under Brexit, I think it might have to be Belmarsh.

How horribly vulgar! The Tower would be the most fitting place to incacerate a traitor of his stature, followed by an appointment with Jack Ketch on Tower Hill.

 

[Pickman's model]

The biggest crime of the current era of Trump/Brexit/Corbyn is to put us in a situation that we are all, to a man, though at differing levels of denial, on an inexorable path towards 180'ing towards our only saviour. The only thing prevent the inevitable is time and people's biligerence towards the obvious.

Guardian headline withing 5 years: Come Back Tony, All is Forgiven...

The warmonger over the water

 

[B.I.G]

If young unemployed people predominantly vote, as you declare, ukip, how do you square that with the overwhelming majority of young people voting remain?

How do you square "economic" factors being an excuse for people voting UKIP, if young people did in fact vote remain in areas of high youth employment?