SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Well yes. So can he do anything in the next couple of years. Will he be a player in all this? He should be a busted flush & yet he appears not to be.
"The British people expressed their view very clearly on 23rd June"
- Thread starter Helen Back
- Start date
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
If even the Guardian is pouring scorn on the horrible old cunt I reckon he's pretty much done as a credible force in politics.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Johnson still has the official power to do a lot more damage, although I wouldn't hold my breath that his successor as Foreign Secretary would be a whole lot better.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Blimey, she's normally his biggest arselicker, if she's turned on him then he really has lost it.
toblerone3
Grrrrr
I think Tony Blair is right on this one. It is possible to be wrong on one thing and right on another. The real fools are the left wingers who supported Brexit. What did they think they were doing. 
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I think Tony Blair is right on this one. It is possible to be wrong on one thing and right on another. The real fools are the left wingers who supported Brexit. What did they think they were doing.
Oh for fucks sake
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
An opportunity exists for a left wing Brexit. Of course it does. Somebody has just got to take it & run with it. Not even the well paid can afford to get on the housing ladder these days & their numbers are increasing year on year. What we need though is a brilliant & inspiring public speaker to put the case & promise among other things to build council houses. That's the only way in shouty British politics. I think any speculation is premature though. There are enough upcoming events from elections in other European countries to Greece going bust to make predictions of outcomes impossible.
rubbershoes
not the only raver in the village
I reckon that in 5-10 years , Scotland will be imdependent . Then there'll be a permanent Tory majority at Westminster. The future is fucked
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
Why would there be? A decent affordable & secure place to live is fundamental for most people. As time passes the lack of affordable housing will affect more & more people. The only way to fix it is to build council houses with controlled rents. If enough people want a left wing government whatever that party might be called then they will vote for it & get it despite boundary changes.
Why wouldn't there be? The one thing I have been told most on Urban is that as people get poorer they become more right wing.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
What does this have to do with Brexit, though?
Yossarian
⏭️
Losing Scotland isn't going to give the Tories a permanent majority, luckily - according to this chart, the only elections in the last 50 years where the result would have been different without Scottish votes were the autumn of 1974, when the Tories would have won instead of Labour, and 2010, when the Conservatives would have had a majority instead of a coalition government.
The general elections where Scotland decided who ran the UK
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Considering Blair is on record saying he'd rather Labour lose a general election than win on a left platform, I don't think his timing is surprising in the slightest.
Living in Stoke, I'm feeling extra stabby atm.
Living in Stoke, I'm feeling extra stabby atm.
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
It has everything to do with Brexit inasmuch as socialism is as capable of owning Brexit as rampant capitalism. It just needs a poltical movement that can put it's point across successfully. We need good orators.
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
As people get poorer they cannot afford to buy their own homes but they still need affordable good quaility & secure housing. They would probably be more likely to vote for a party that builds council houses with controlled rents than a party that gives tax advantages to scum landlords.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Wrong way round. It's not about 'socialism' putting it's point across successfully, it's about labour finding new paths and directions and 'socialists' getting on board and helping to fight for those new directions.
maomao
普費斯
You haven't been told any such thing. You're just a lying, needling prick.
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
The party can still be called Labour but it will have to become different to what it is now or has been in the past. Are the terms left & right still relevant though? People are poor in the UK because wealth generated by all is unfairly distributed. People are bitter about this. If you beat people into the ground & then somebody emerges who can convince them things can change then they will vote for that person & the party they represent but that person & those around him need to be convincing. They need to inspire people & talk the talk otherwise they won't get anywhere.
Say what you want about Blair & co. To achieve the '97 result was no accident. It took some very clever plotting & planning learning the lessons from '92 when Labour snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. That's what it takes to achieve power & that's what Labour needs to do again to achieve power but this is a different time so it needs a different approach. Left or right? what do those terms mean? Communist USSR was supposed to be left wing but the ruling elite still lived it up while the people queued for food.
We can't save the whole world so we need to stop trying for moment at least & concentrate on the UK. When Brits on low wages with insecure employment & housing see £millions going on overseas aid they get angry. It's no good branding these people parochial bigoted racists when they are natural Labour supporters who should be voting Labour. What made them like that? It's not hard to work that one out. The Tories have allowed whole business models to develop that relies on a totally flexible labour force that can be turned on & off like a tap & they have had an unlimited pool of foreign labour to bus in completely bypassing local people who want only decent secure employment. No wonder they voted leave.
It's no good Corbyn & co sitting in London with their high global socialist ideals looking down on working people living in provincial towns who only want secure employment & secure affordable housing for themselves & their kids as they grow up. Labour needs to start working out how they can win the votes of those people in very large numbers.
danny la rouge
More like *fanny* la rouge!
By whom, when? Links required.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
I used a small l on purpose I mean labour not Labour.
Labour won't open any new paths, labour (i.e. the working class, the proletariat, whatever your preferred term is) is the actor and we should follow that.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
SaskiaJayne
Rural Guerrilla
I don't think a completely new party is the way to go. It didn't work for the SDP & it's not really working for UKIP. Despite their high profile they only have 1 MP. The Labour Party was started by the trade union movement & the name remains as a brand name associated with working people. So I would think the realistic way forward for the left wing or socialists to gain power is still under the The Labour Party brand name.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Sorry but I see this as part of the problem rather than the solution. It's not about trying to get socialists into power, it's about how can we work to ensure that labour obtains the maximum gains from it's power.
It's possible that that electoral politics, either through the Labour Party or a new party, could be one route but it's certainly not the only one. Indeed, I'm highly skeptical of electoral politics precisely because of the reasons suggested by your post - that one you start to go down that path the destination changes from 'how can we obtain gains for labour' to 'how can we ensure that the Labour (or Green/whatever) Party wins'.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I think that this might be putting cart before the horse or something.
At this point there is no mass of forces that could either deliver a left in Labour win or significant gains for a left of Labour group.
Learn to drive before picking a vehicle or something I guess.
At this point there is no mass of forces that could either deliver a left in Labour win or significant gains for a left of Labour group.
Learn to drive before picking a vehicle or something I guess.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
And more importantly IMO no reason to necessarily believe that 'left' Labour government would produce gains for labour.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Well, yeah, there's that too.
newbie
undisambiguated
wherever it goes? I asked you on another thread about being in a social movement with specific, self-identified, racists but didn't get a response. Isn't that an important question?
Similar threads
