The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[ska invita]

I sincerely hope they change their minds. I forsee a groundswell to rejoin. Whether there will be the political appetite for it is another matter. If there is serious money to be made I reckon we will rejoin. But I predict a period of gross British poverty, both financially and politically before then

Forces of Rejoin are a certainty and will do more damage to Labour than to any other party. Europe will hang around the Labour parties neck as it did the Tories up to the referendum. For years and years to come. Less a groundswell and more of a rump though i think

 

[weltweit]

It is fair to say that this experience does not necessarily apply to all industries.

I would be interested to know which sectors you are thinking of?

For my former field, industrial electrical and electronics, a CE mark will continue to be required to carry on supply to the EU.

 

[ska invita]

Labyrinth applies particularly to the EU head tables Machiavellian negotiating goals and methods and not about standards.

 

[kabbes]

I would be interested to know which sectors you are thinking of?

For my former field, industrial electrical and electronics, a CE mark will continue to be required to carry on supply to the EU.

The financial sector, where the Euros are obsessed with fair value accounting even where there is no readily tradable commodity, because they are neoliberal to the core.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Worth remembering the majority of leave voters were older wealthier tories

No no, the media tells me its entirely the fault of Nothern Labour voters please ignore those big old swathes of blue in the South.

 

[weltweit]

Initially at least the European move to CE marking proved a block on US and far eastern competitors who seemed slow to take note of the new requirements. So a barrier to entry. Product standards were generated by committee members selected from the participating companies so they were usually generated to levels which those companies themselves could comply.

As to the barriers to entry, the significant far eastern and US competitors soon got the message and produced products that could be both CE marked and UL listed, so as a barrier they were only short term.

 

[weltweit]

The financial sector, where the Euros are obsessed with fair value accounting even where there is no readily tradable commodity, because they are neoliberal to the core.

Oh well, I don't know much about the financial sector.
Are they asking you to do things in the UK that they don't do in Germany?

 

[Artaxerxes]

As I understand it having to stick to EU regulations has had a significantly positive effect on the UK environment in the last 30 odd years. Unfortunately I can't find any bloody figures for it just some light fluff.

 

[kabbes]

Oh well, I don't know much about the financial sector.
Are they asking you to do things in the UK that they don't do in Germany?

To answer that would require more tedium than you can possibly imagine

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Worth remembering the mighty EP Thompson

View attachment 242739

Be interested to know what percentage of people from the UK visited Europe in 2019 compared to 1973. The meaning of foreign travel has changed a lot in 50 years.

 

[Raheem]

Be interested to know what percentage of people from the UK visited Europe in 2019 compared to 1973. The meaning of foreign travel has changed a lot in 50 years.

It's changed a lot in ten months.

 

[weltweit]

Be interested to know what percentage of people from the UK visited Europe in 2019 compared to 1973. The meaning of foreign travel has changed a lot in 50 years.

I don't mean to have a dig, but that sort of use of "Europe" always bugs me. Britain, England, Scotland, Wales Ireland we are all in Europe, we are European countries. You could have said visited the European continent, or the continent.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's changed a lot in ten months.

Of course, which is why I didn't say 2020. But a class-based analysis that depends on whether or not people take foreign holidays that may have made some sense in 1973 makes little sense today.

 

[gosub]

Of course, which is why I didn't say 2020. But a class-based analysis that depends on whether or not people take foreign holidays that may have made some sense in 1973 makes little sense today.

What did you do this summer?

 

[gosub]

Mordaunt goes through the looking-glass and down a rabbit hole | John Crace

For the second time in a week, Michael Gove’s understudy was sent out with nothing new to say

www.theguardian.com

 

[AnandLeo]

One of the deadlock issues is, changes to trade, financial and environmental laws and such matters that two sides agree to now, will be changed in the future by the EU bureaucracy, and Britain will have to agree to these changes or negotiate agreements or face some consequences. So there is going to be continuous negotiations in the future about trade relations and things such as food and environmental standards. That is inevitable, Britain from outside the EU will have to negotiate trade and other relations forever. If Britain were in the EU, then Britain would have had to negotiate within the EU as they make changes in the bureaucracy.

 

[kabbes]

Of course, which is why I didn't say 2020. But a class-based analysis that depends on whether or not people take foreign holidays that may have made some sense in 1973 makes little sense today.

This is done a bit one of the papers I linked to above. Young, London-based participants certainly saw Europe like this and it was a key focus of the way they talked about Europe. Other groups spoke a bit about liking to have a few weeks in the sun but rapidly moved on from that to other issues. I guess that not unreasonably, they took the view that a couple of weeks in the sun could be had whether they were in the EU or not.

 

[not-bono-ever]

I know this may not be original or witty but each day I wake up and am instantly agog at what a bunch of arseholes we have seem to have nominated to run the show.

 

[Pickman's model]

I know this may not be original or witty but each day I wake up and am instantly agog at what a bunch of arseholes we have seem to have nominated to run the show.

I find it's more like waking up after a night on the lash and thinking all's well for a few moments until the utter clusterfuck that's been made of the exit and the virus rises up in my consciousness like r'lyeh rising from a convulsed sea

 

[ska invita]

Canada or Australia? Giveaway CANZUK cunts

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course other brexits were an option. They were just not an option that had any chance of making it onto the table.

it's like some people are utterly invested in this everything was always going to be like this. I don't know why because it's complete tosh. Sure, the route taken has obvs ended up here: but none of this was predestined. I've identified some points where events could have easily been different, and I'll give you another - if the lib dems hadn't broken last autumn and decided to vote for a ge.

 

[ska invita]

it's like some people are utterly invested in this everything was always going to be like this. I don't know why because it's complete shit. Sure, the route taken has obvs ended up here: but none of this was predestined. I've identified some points where events could have easily been different, and I'll give you another - if the lib dems hadn't broken last autumn and decided to vote for a ge.

the libdems, tinge and SNP swung the vote against a customs union - which failed by 3 votes

Soft Brexiters blame referendum supporters for Commons deadlock

Independent Group, Lib Dems and SNP fail to back customs union as it falls by three votes

www.theguardian.com

key moment

 

[The39thStep]

Be interested to know what percentage of people from the UK visited Europe in 2019 compared to 1973. The meaning of foreign travel has changed a lot in 50 years.

Obviously more people go abroad on holiday these days but I'm not sure that everyone shares the same 'meaning 'of foreign travel in any case. Thompson is talking about the middle class and yes its a caricature. However a glance at a lot of the middle class continuity remain postings in social media or in papers suggests that this caricature is still alive and kicking tbh. Take the panic over brie for example.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Obviously more people go abroad on holiday these days but I'm not sure that everyone shares the same 'meaning 'of foreign travel in any case. Thompson is talking about the middle class and yes its a caricature. However a glance at a lot of the middle class continuity remain postings in social media or in papers suggests that this caricature is still alive and kicking tbh. Take the panic over brie for example.

I can't seem to find much data on income levels but this does suggest some truth to the stereotype of huge numbers of working class now bugger off to Spain. For which I can't blame em the weather's more reliable and UK holidays are expensive tbh. Crappy public transport to.





There's also the short weekend stag break industry which is annoyingly large considering the environmental impact of flying.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

the libdems, tinge and SNP swung the vote against a customs union - which failed by 3 votes

Soft Brexiters blame referendum supporters for Commons deadlock

Independent Group, Lib Dems and SNP fail to back customs union as it falls by three votes

www.theguardian.com

key moment

Yep

The Lib Dem Norman Lamb, who had urged his party to back a compromise, said he was furious with the result. “I am so deeply distressed. I am ashamed to be a member of this parliament,” he said. “We have failed in our responsibility today. There has been far too much posturing and intransigence, including from my own party.”

Lamb said he believed the lack of compromise had pushed the UK closer to a no-deal exit. “It may now be too late,” he said. “I don’t hold out much hope now. There is a very real chance we will crash out. We have failed twice now and failed because of people who broadly support a customs union not being willing to back it.”

 

[not-bono-ever]

Ain’t no pragmatism in the heart of the government

 

[not-bono-ever]

As David Coverdale might have said

 

[not-bono-ever]

The poodle haired visionary

 

[teuchter]

Seems a bit like the argument being made here is that no, it wasn't foolish to support Brexit because it wasn't inevitable that it would end in a chaotic crash-out. That suggests that the argument is that it made sense to support Brexit on the basis that it would quite likely lead to a very soft Brexit where we'd be in a customs union tied tightly to all the EU rules and so on. So, if that was the outcome envisaged by those who supported Brexit, what was the actual point of Brexit again?

 

[TopCat]

UK and EU say no-deal Brexit is now most likely outcome

PM says no deal would be ‘wonderful’ as it emerges France and Germany rebuffed overtures

www.theguardian.com