kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
Have you ever tried to do anything involving EU regulators or authorities? Labyrinth is exactly the right word. They’ll happy just keep going without any end in sight unless you set hard deadlines.
The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Not sure they're as calculating as that. Cummings' tactics never seemed to look beyond tomorrow's headlines. Not sure Johnson can even be said to have tactics of his own. He's always been clueless about the detail (not much of an Ideas man either, tbf), so why would he change now? And as you say, 'no deal' is really no such thing. It's a postponed deal with months of chaos as a prelude.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Not extending the deadline was 100% appeasement of Brexit wing loons in the Tory party. And fuck the consequences.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
While I think you're right, the pandemic also provides a degree of cover. The brexit fiasco probably isn't the overriding current affairs issue for most people right now, while any punitive travel restrictions coming in on 1 Jan due to no deal won't be felt immediately because who's got foreign trips planned atm?
ska invita
back on the other side
IIRC its how Yanis Varoufakis described the attempts to negotiate with the EU - labyrinthine - though now i think about it I might have made it up!
ska invita
back on the other side
Lexit was to my mind always first and foremost about Sovereignty, so on that score at least theres something to cheer about
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The Ins and Outs of the Labyrinth - dooneyscafe.com
It's a flash-mob Greek tragedy. Stan Persky reviews "Adults in the Room," the political memoir that tells you almost everything you need to know about the EU.
tendril
Coming up blastin' like Yosemite Sam
I profoundly disagree. My opinion is that a no deal is exactly what the architects of brexit want so they can make a shite load of money off it. The people who voted for it, and then who further enabled it by voting the tories in, are completely irrelevant to the people engineering this no deal situation. They were used and now will be cast aside.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh obvs they'll be cast aside. but my point is simply that all manner of other brexits could have happened and the path we happen to have taken from 23/6/16 to today was not the only one possible - things could have ended up rather differently if eg cameron hadn't run off, if the labour party had acted other than they did, if the election of 2017 (or 2019) had led to a different result.
not-bono-ever
meh
There was never any hunger for a sensible deal with the EU. Never
tendril
Coming up blastin' like Yosemite Sam
Of course other brexits were an option. They were just not an option that had any chance of making it onto the table.
There are certainly those who've wanted a no-deal outcome and tried to engineer it, whether that's out of financial interest or political lunacy or both, and at times they've definitely been able to nudge events in that direction. Crispin Odey and Jacob Rees-Mogg are probably pretty satisfied right now. But I don't believe no-deal was the government's plan all along or that this outcome was inevitable. Theresa May could have decided against trying to out-UKIP UKIP in 2016-7 and tried to forge a consensus around what was then referred to as a soft Brexit, for a start, or Parliament voted through some variant of May's deal, in which case the UK would be out with a deal (thin, but a lot better than what's coming) by now. IMO it's arrogance, delusions of grandeur, a complete inability to face facts, systemic dishonesty, crass stupidity and monumental incompetence that have brought us to this point.
There are a lot of shouty types on social media this evening - not all bots! - with union-flag avatars crowing about how people wanted a no-deal all along. I wonder whether people who think that now will still think it in six months' time, and if not who they'll be shouting at/about then...
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sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
The big problem was squaring any kind of deal with the promises that were made and the fact it would be damaging - not the easiest deal in history or the sunlit uplands.
No deal and blaming the EU was the only way out.
No deal and blaming the EU was the only way out.
They've backed themselves into that corner now, yes.
This is another sense in which the government's 'strategy' since 2017 has been to keep kicking the can down the road and delay the moment at which promises and reality have to collide.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The oven ready deal is sticking our heads in the stove abs turning on the gas
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Perhaps, though I think the intention of the no-deal crowd is to make a shite load of money, but over the long term - imperil enough people in the UK with an economic collapse and they'll quite quickly get people working for 25% - 50% less than they are now, with similar declines in conditions, workplace rights etc as loads of people fight for jobs.
To do this the people who voted for it are the people who are required to do the work - or "make Britain competitive again" as they will doubt cry - and the government will probably spend the next election saying yes, Brexit was savage but look at all the jobs that have come here since, the working class is now working again, outside toilets are less prone to COVID etc etc ad infinitum. This is basically what Raab etc put in their little book of criticisms about a decade ago.
tommers
It was... Rebekah Vardy's account
UK to deny asylum to refugees passing through 'safe' third country
Immigration rule will also prevent migrants from making a claim in UK territorial waters
ska invita
back on the other side
Worth remembering the majority of leave voters were older wealthier tories
ska invita
back on the other side
UK to deny asylum to refugees passing through 'safe' third country
Immigration rule will also prevent migrants from making a claim in UK territorial waterswww.theguardian.com
Immigration law experts have said this could render the new policy “pointless” and would most likely delay asylum applications and leave refugees in limbo in the UK. Colin Yeo, a leading immigration barrister with expertise in asylum law, wrote on Twitter: “The policy is pointless because the govt has negotiated no such return agreements, so all it does is delay decisions on all claims, which is cruel to genuine refugees, and delay removal of non genuine cases.”
cunts
tommers
It was... Rebekah Vardy's account
In order to make Britain competitive in the new difficult world we will, unfortunately, have to amend the maternity and paternity leave regulations and reduce the number of holidays available to our workers.
realitybites
Active Member
Surely the Tories are working something out after all these months of half arse negotiations? Or else with this deal quickly becoming a no deal — How different, if at all any different will it be from what Farage was spouting on about and would of brokered in an instant?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I have been involved with EU product standards, directives and CE marking, mainly in the electrical area. In my experience they made us up our game to continue supplying in the market. The standards improved our products, made them perform better, and made them safer.
It bothers me UK Gov seems intent on creating "UKCA" standards, I would prefer to continue with EU standards.
tendril
Coming up blastin' like Yosemite Sam
I sincerely hope they change their minds. I forsee a groundswell to rejoin. Whether there will be the political appetite for it is another matter. If there is serious money to be made I reckon we will rejoin. But I predict a period of gross British poverty, both financially and politically before then
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
It is fair to say that this experience does not necessarily apply to all industries.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Worth remembering the mighty EP Thompson
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