The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[The39thStep]

Do you think the UK's post-Brexit deal with the US is likely to lead to improved food standards and animal welfare, or is it irrelevant because, err, littlebabyjesus didn't suffer any 'side effects' when he was in the US?

Is there anyone claiming that a post-Brexit trade deal would do that? To be honest I even can't remember those two criteria being met when we joined the Common Market. As for littlebabyjesus side effects, we don't know.

 

[bimble]

Sorry for asking questions. You didn't suffer any side effects, temporary or long lasting though?

Do you seriously think that it would be a good thing if everyone lowered their food standards to please American meat exporters or is it just that the UK should do so and stop whinging about it because we need a trade deal and they’re bigger than us.

I don’t understand the impulse to wave away every bit of fallout from the government’s implementation of brexit.

If it turns out that the nhs needing to buy the Americans’ massively more expensive drugs is part of the deal would that be totally fine too?

Trump’s Plan For The NHS: Channel 4 Dispatches | Channel 4

The price the NHS pays for US medicines could soar under a trade deal with America after the UK leaves the European Union, according to an investigation by Dispatches.

www.channel4.com

 

[littlebabyjesus]

tbh the quality of the food I was eating was probably the least of my worries, healthwise, when I lived in the states. But that's another story, not relevant here.

 

[The39thStep]

Not food standards, but I found quite a lot of things I was served absolutely revolving, often inedible and have not experienced that anywhere else around the world. The odd thing is that they seemed really proud of their wares. I hard the worst ever cooked breakfast I have ever experienced. The server's told me that it was going to beat the hell out of any euro breakfast I had ever eaten, "a proper good ol' American breakfast". the couple next to me reiterated this despite never having left the USA.

Don't mind the waffles/pancakes they do for breakfast.

 

[bimble]

Grits for breakfast, that was grim.

 

[editor]

Is there anyone claiming that a post-Brexit trade deal would do that? To be honest I even can't remember those two criteria being met when we joined the Common Market. As for littlebabyjesus side effects, we don't know.

Amazing that you missed all the discussion and reporting on that. There's been plenty of stories like this:

It's not just chlorinated chicken: five foods a US trade deal could bring to the UK | Nick Dearden

The US is demanding a ‘science-based’ approach with disturbing consequences, says Nick Dearden, director of Global Justice Now

www.theguardian.com

MPs Voted Against Taking Control of British Food Standards Again

An amendment seeking Parliamentary oversight on future agricultural trade deals was voted down, by Parliament

london.eater.com

Basic food standards under threat from US trade deal - Which? News

Government backtracks on legal protection for safety and animal welfare

www.which.co.uk

Top 10 risks from a UK-US Trade Deal | Soil Association

www.soilassociation.org

Brexit trade deals: how UK food standards compare to the world - Which? News

How do food and farming standards in Australia, Canada, India, Japan and New Zealand differ to ours?

www.which.co.uk

Post-Brexit food standards

With UK trade relations unclear over Brexit, food standards are fast becoming a key test for public health in trade matters. On Feb 28, 2019, the US Trade Representative (USTR) published the US negotiating position on a post-Brexit US–UK trade deal.1 USTR made clear that the UK must abandon the...

www.thelancet.com

So what is the answer to my question?

 

[The39thStep]

Do you seriously think that it would be a good thing if everyone lowered their food standards to please American meat exporters or is it just that the UK should do so and stop whinging about it because we need a trade deal and they’re bigger than us.

I don’t understand the impulse to wave away every bit of fallout from the government’s implementation of brexit.

If it turns out that the nhs needing to buy the Americans’ massively more expensive drugs is part of the deal would that be totally fine too?

Trump’s Plan For The NHS: Channel 4 Dispatches | Channel 4

The price the NHS pays for US medicines could soar under a trade deal with America after the UK leaves the European Union, according to an investigation by Dispatches.

www.channel4.com

It's not a case that everyone lowers their food standard though is it? The States are one of the largest exporters of chicken.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Twinkies are very disappointing. Not even entertainginly bad. Just shiny, greasy tubes of nothing.

Twinkie defense - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[stdP]

The chocolate is bizarrely awful. They must put diesel in it or something.

It's butyric acid - the same stuff as produced in rancid butter - that gives it it's own unique flavour. Incredibly enough, this is by design in order to cope with hotter climes in pre-refrigeration times:

If you’ve ever tasted American milk chocolate, especially Hershey’s, and you’re used to British or European chocolate, you’ll probably recall it has a distinctive tangy flavour. This is because the milk in Hershey’s chocolate is treated with butyric acid to make it last longer. Unlike in Britain, where dairy farms are close to chocolate factories, in America the source of milk can be thousands of miles away. During the advent of chocolate’s popularity, the early 20th century, there were limited refrigeration options and slower transport systems than today. This posed a problem – how to keep the milk fresh? The solution back then was to allow the milk to deteriorate, or sour, in a safe way before transportation.

How the taste still remains popular there remains a mystery to me though.

European biscuits are shite an’all.

I'd have to contest this and say italian biscuits are superb. Indeed, I think much of the everyday italian baking and confectionery is superior to the - usually much better regarded - french equivalents.

The reason that haggis is banned in USA, is that they are concerned about the possibility of TB in the sheep's lung.

Imports of all products containing sheep's lung from the UK to the US were banned in 1971, as you say due to a perceived risk of TB infection. Haggis is still made and sold within the US and Canada itself though.

As yet another Brexit Bonus™, export of haggis to the EU is now a minefield with many deliveries of haggis being rejected (along with chilled sausages).

 

[not-bono-ever]

the histor of the US using cheap food dumping as a weapon of foreign policy is not something to be ignored

 

[TopCat]

the histor of the US using cheap food dumping as a weapon of foreign policy is not something to be ignored

Tell us more

 

[The39thStep]

Amazing that you missed all the discussion and reporting on that. There's been plenty of stories like this:

It's not just chlorinated chicken: five foods a US trade deal could bring to the UK | Nick Dearden

The US is demanding a ‘science-based’ approach with disturbing consequences, says Nick Dearden, director of Global Justice Now

www.theguardian.com

MPs Voted Against Taking Control of British Food Standards Again

An amendment seeking Parliamentary oversight on future agricultural trade deals was voted down, by Parliament

london.eater.com

Basic food standards under threat from US trade deal - Which? News

Government backtracks on legal protection for safety and animal welfare

www.which.co.uk

Top 10 risks from a UK-US Trade Deal | Soil Association

www.soilassociation.org

Brexit trade deals: how UK food standards compare to the world - Which? News

How do food and farming standards in Australia, Canada, India, Japan and New Zealand differ to ours?

www.which.co.uk

Post-Brexit food standards

With UK trade relations unclear over Brexit, food standards are fast becoming a key test for public health in trade matters. On Feb 28, 2019, the US Trade Representative (USTR) published the US negotiating position on a post-Brexit US–UK trade deal.1 USTR made clear that the UK must abandon the...

www.thelancet.com

So what is the answer to my question?

No I've read all that sort of stuff, its been posted up on here many times and I really don't have a problem with the idea of chlorinated chicken in itself.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

the histor of the US using cheap food dumping as a weapon of foreign policy is not something to be ignored

It's also a classic worked example of the power relations in trade deals. The weaker side becoming a rule-taker from the stronger side. Any idea that the UK can get itself better trade deals than the EU is just laughable really. It's fantasy land.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

No I've read all that sort of stuff, its been posted up on here many times and I really don't have a problem with the idea of chlorinated chicken in itself.

Do you understand the issue with chlorinated chicken? It's not that the chicken itself is unsafe, it is that the act of chlorination is deemed necessary due to lower standards further back in the chain. I'd really advise you to look into chicken farming in the US. It's a horror story for both the chickens and the humans working with them.

 

[not-bono-ever]

basic political economics. Yeltsin extracted emergency food aid from the US when he was under pressure during the early 90s & was pushed towards a big bang market econcomy with US assist following it. Plenty of examples of for eg Mexico putting thousands of small jobbing farmers out of work as they couldnt complete with US dumping- makes the recipient dependant on exported gear and more complaint for economic pressures from the states. Its soft power

 

[bimble]

Weirdly fascinating stuff, the US and India recently had a chicken leg war, ended up in WTO court with India losing and being forced to eat the American legs.

A chicken war shows all that’s wrong with India-US bilateral trade

Chicken Nationalism

qz.com

 

[TopCat]

What are we looking to sell in US markets if we do a trade deal?

 

[kabbes]

What are we looking to sell in US markets if we do a trade deal?

Chlorine

 

[not-bono-ever]

do we produce helium ? their stock of texas hydrocarbon helium is low low low.

 

[agricola]

What are we looking to sell in US markets if we do a trade deal?

hopefully tea

 

[littlebabyjesus]

hopefully tea

We'll all be drinking Lipton's.

 

[kabbes]

Pomposity and superciliousness

 

[not-bono-ever]

Fair play

 

[SpookyFrank]

It's butyric acid - the same stuff as produced in rancid butter - that gives it it's own unique flavour. Incredibly enough, this is by design in order to cope with hotter climes in pre-refrigeration times:


How the taste still remains popular there remains a mystery to me though.



I'd have to contest this and say italian biscuits are superb. Indeed, I think much of the everyday italian baking and confectionery is superior to the - usually much better regarded - french equivalents.

Italian bakeries are indeed superior to French bakeries. Italian cheese is better too.

 

[agricola]

evil masterminds

 

[SpookyFrank]

Tell us more

Rice in the caribbean is the example I'm familiar with.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Oh is it like Sarsaparilla? I would only have to mention it aloud here at home to provoke memories of East Street market and the man selling the drink.

 

[agricola]

Italian bakeries are indeed superior to French bakeries. Italian cheese is better too.

I agree with you about the cheese, but bakeries are much more product dependent - for example, I'd hate to try an Italian bakery's version of a sausage roll or a pork pie.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I agree with you about the cheese, but bakeries are much more product dependent - for example, I'd hate to try an Italian bakery's version of a sausage roll or a pork pie.

They have separate shops for cured meat items as a rule.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Many countries produce excellent cheese, tbf. Not really better or worse, just different.

Except the US. US cheese is just shit.