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The Ashes 2021/22

mhendo said:
I think that this is right, but I'm not sure that it completely undermines my point. Test teams are generally made up of the best players available, but some test teams are stronger than others, and it's not always the case that every batsman in a test team is an absolute top-tier cricketer (like a Smith, or Root, or Ponting, or whatever). There might be times when a national team, due to the current crop of available players, has some batsmen available who truly are of the best test quality, but might also have to fill a couple of places in the lineup with somewhat lesser options. If, in those circumstances, you can slot in a guy who you believe can score runs under these particular conditions, but not under some other conditions, it makes sense to do it.

One problem in cricket, especially in batting, is the relatively small sample size you have to judge whether a run of outs is just a run of bad luck, or a true slump in form related to a fundamental problem of technique or approach. For example, look at Warner in 2019. After the first two tests, he had a total of 18 runs in four innings. Is that enough, no matter his past performances, to say "I think he might not be the right guy for this series"? What about after the third test? Or the fourth?

I'm not saying these decisions are easy, or that the right decision is always obvious and clear-cut. But I do think that there's sometimes a bit too much rigidity, a bit too much unwillingness to experiment.
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Yes, your point in the second para is why bowlers are dropped much more quickly than batters. It does have some sense to it. Two mistakes and their match is over. Just by natural, random variation, batters will have slumps - randomness is clumpy.

With Warner, I'm not so sure it was wrong to carry on picking him in 2019. It was a particularly hard summer for all openers, after all. The question has to be: do we think his replacement is likely to do better?
 
RileyOBlimey said:
Cocaine, involved in drunken brawling, blackface and calling his dog a racist name.
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I said 'these days'. The blackface thing was stupid, he's admitted that, we've all done cocaine I'm sure, the 'drunken brawling' was defending a gay couple from being bashed with the current vice captain and as for the racism in the dressing room, there's quite a few question marks over that, including the current England captain saying he didn't notice anything untoward and the accuser being unmasked as a racist himself.
 
Petcha said:
I said 'these days'. The blackface thing was stupid, he's admitted that, we've all done cocaine I'm sure, the 'drunken brawling' was defending a gay couple from being bashed with the current vice captain and as for the racism in the dressing room, there's quite a few question marks over that, including the current England captain saying he didn't notice anything untoward and the accuser being unmasked as a racist himself.
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The current captain, we now know, doesn't always tell the truth.

I would also say that 2 acts of racism do not make a right. The racism Rafiq Asim experienced should not be undermined by a racist comment he has made and held his hand up to in an appropriate way.

I don't give a toss about cocaine. In fact extra credit to those that can perform while maintaining a side gig as a munter.
 
All the talk of Hales and even bloody Sibley is completely based on the failings of others, not the talent of Hales and Sibley. Let's give Keaton Jennings a shout if that's the case.

Hameed has had 8 tests. Got dropped for 5 years after 3 of them (even though that included an 82). He often looks like he knows what he's doing but the clamour to drop him is always loud for some reason. Should have played for Surrey. Should have been white.

Burns now has 31 tests. Pope about 23.

8. Dropped after 3. Give him the chances others have had. Keaton Jennings got 17 ffs. Should have been South African.

I'd keep Burns in because TINA. Let him fail in Australia. Then tell him to hitchhike home.

I'd keep Hameed in, and for whatever the next series is too regardless of his scores, because those are the chances that have been given again and again to other, white cricketers. And because he does, often, look the part. Burns never looks the part and has technical problems even I can see. But of course, Steve Smith does this, Steve Smith does that. Yeah, well he's not Steve Smith is he?

I digress. Hameed deserves a proper run and should have been given a 12 month contract to settle his mind. Another really crap decision from the management to add to all the other crap ones.
 
RileyOBlimey said:
Tymal Mills is at a loose end in Australia…

thesportsrush.com

"I don't think I'm allowed to play": Tymal Mills to miss next Perth Scorchers BBL 2021-22 game against Hobart Hurricanes

BBL 2021-22: English pacer Tymal Mills will miss the next Perth Scorchers home game due to Western Australia border restrictions.
thesportsrush.com thesportsrush.com

I wonder if he’s now able to risk playing a test or 2.
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The Tymal Mills who can't even play 50-over cricket cos of a medical condition? That Tymal Mills?

The solution to England's problems isn't playing in the BBL.
 
One of England’s major failings is to be picking players that may be good in a few years. Pick your best team for the next match, not who may come good in 3 years.

Anyways, the Torygraph highlights Root’s mismanagement of Archer…

If Joe Root had his way again, the England captain would doubtless not have subjected Jofra Archer’s weary body to what was ultimately a futile sixth spell at the end of an exhausting third day as New Zealand racked up a mammoth 615 runs in November 2019. Nor the subsequent seventh, eighth or ninth spells of his marathon 42-over effort on the deadest of Mount Maunganui pitches that in hindsight looks nothing less than sheer negligence of a precious commodity.

Two years on, the prospect of Archer never playing Test cricket again appears to have risen after news that he has been forced to undergo a second operation to his troublesome right elbow. For that, England must take responsibility.

Archer’s flogging in the first match of a series against New Zealand that did not even form part of the ICC World Test Championship - in addition to 28 overs in the first innings of the very next Test a week later - epitomised the muddled thinking around how to treat a rare gem.

Such was the excitement around his emergence on the international scene that by the time his elbow problem first surfaced following that New Zealand tour in January 2020, Archer had already bowled 274 overs in the opening seven Tests of his career - an average of 39 overs per game, which exceeded any other England bowler during that period.

Amid all-pervading initial excitement, the warning signs had been evident from the outset, with commentator Michael Holding branding England’s over-use of Archer in his debut Test, against Australia at Lord’s, as “abuse”. Even at that stage, Holding voiced a warning that England risked losing Archer’s extreme pace unless they used him more wisely than asking him to deliver 29 overs in his very first innings as a Test cricketer.

Given how much England’s long-term strategy for this current Ashes tour hinged on unleashing a battery of fast bowlers, such a hefty workload at a formative time in Archer’s career now looks like extreme carelessness, especially when factored alongside his use in white-ball cricket for his country at the same time.

There are now increasing concerns that Archer will go down as the great missed opportunity of English Test cricket.
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littlebabyjesus said:
Why are you still talking about Mills? :D

He can't bowl more than four overs in a day. Doctor's orders.
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He is severely limited. However, that is long term management. He could potentially do a test. He’s still fast and left handed.

But yea, fantasies seem to be the only comfort this series.
 
RileyOBlimey said:
He is severely limited. However, that is long term management. He could potentially do a test. He’s still fast and left handed.
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What do you think happens to him after this one test you reckon he can do? Chuck him out to start his recovery for the next year or two with his T20 career down the drain?
 
I watched Mills this morning in the Scorcher/Renegades game. He's quite good, to put it lightly. But no, probably couldn't do a Stoke-esque 10 over stint in a test.

I really feel for Archer btw. I think his career his effectively over. Oh, and on the BBL. Vaughan has popped up as a commentator and he has never appeared more self-satisfied and entitled. Awful man, from my instincts anyway. I don't want to hear about your golf swing, thanks.
 
Christ on a bike. Mills, Hales, Roy, Sibley. Stop it.

You have a squad in Australia. You have one of the fastest bowlers already in that squad (Wood) if you want a fast bowler. And you have batsmen in that squad too waiting their turn. But what you're going to get is the non-white player discarded while we pick a (white) bloke who averaged 11 last year.

Criticize that.

And personally I'd go for Lawrence for Pope. Lawrence has something (though maybe not against spin on a turning pitch). Crawley has Rob Key as his mate.
 
There's two Kiwi ones who are pretty quick too. Their names escape me. But why you wouldn't play your fastest bowler I've no idea. Was Brett Lee ever rested?
 
As a bit of an aside, has anyone here ever faced fast bowling? Not Wood, Archer pace. But quick? I did once, when I was about 15 and I really couldn't see the ball, it was probably only about 75mph. God knows what 90mph must be like.
 
I do wonder if they'll finally ditch Pope. The numbers aren't on his side. He's played 22 tests. Same as Sibley. Sibley made a few more runs than Pope. Sibley had 2 centuries to Pope's 1. Pope's average has been on a downward spiral FOR TWO YEARS since he made that century. He now averages 29.

Yeah, one century in 22 tests. Boycott used to say the average for a decent (not great) test player should be 1 century every 5 matches.

Pope must go.
 
Petcha said:
There's two Kiwi ones who are pretty quick too. Their names escape me. But why you wouldn't play your fastest bowler I've no idea. Was Brett Lee ever rested?
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Ferguson and Milne. Milne's never played test cricket, though. Ferguson one match two years ago. Maybe should revise that and say that Wood is the fastest bowler in test cricket right now. Nowadays, Wood is over 90 from the first ball and can bowl whole spells at full pace.
 
I remember KP saying a few years ago that the difference between facing a bowler at 140kph and 150kph was astronomic. Just bowl Wood every game.
 
Petcha said:
As a bit of an aside, has anyone here ever faced fast bowling? Not Wood, Archer pace. But quick? I did once, when I was about 15 and I really couldn't see the ball, it was probably only about 75mph. God knows what 90mph must be like.
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Once for me too. We were playing a side that brought in a county player for a match. I'm was a bowler and solid No. 11 I could only play one forward defensive shot. I missed timed this against the first ball yorker I faced from him and score a 4. The next ball I saw a blur that it pitched about half way down the wicket, next thing I knew I was on my arse with a very sore head. I didn't last many balls after that.
 
Monkeygrinder's Organ said:
What do you think happens to him after this one test you reckon he can do? Chuck him out to start his recovery for the next year or two with his T20 career down the drain?
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Use him in 3 over spells infrequently. Intelligently, use him against the right batsmen at the right time. No chance of Root doing that mind.
 
RileyOBlimey said:
Use him in 3 over spells infrequently. Intelligently, use him against the right batsmen at the right time. No chance of Root doing that mind.
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Yeah, 3 over spells once a day. ;) It can't happen - he's a t20 specialist for a very good reason.

I'd like to see Mark Wood not given more than four-over spells. He was probably overbowled in the first test. England have a long history of flogging genuine fast bowlers. Not just Archer. Devon Malcolm was used very unintelligently by Gooch/Atherton as well.
 
England have always treated their fast bowlers without a clue. I can go back to John Snow (being a Sussex fan). Rated by Gavaskar, Ian Chappell and Lillee as second only to Andy Roberts he was treated like shit by the selectors. He missed an Ashes tour in 74/75 to the delight and astonishment of the Aussies.

Willis was treated like shit too until that innings. And in that innings it was Willis who had to plead with Brearley to bowl with the wind.

Not the fastest but does anyone remember Hoggard's treatment?

We have a problem with fast bowlers.
 
planetgeli said:
England have always treated their fast bowlers without a clue. I can go back to John Snow (being a Sussex fan). Rated by Gavaskar, Ian Chappell and Lillee as second only to Andy Roberts he was treated like shit by the selectors. He missed an Ashes tour in 74/75 to the delight and astonishment of the Aussies.

Willis was treated like shit too until that innings. And in that innings it was Willis who had to plead with Brearley to bowl with the wind.

Not the fastest but does anyone remember Hoggard's treatment?

We have a problem with fast bowlers.
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Class and race are likely biases that may catalyse this poor treatment.
 
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