The Ashes 2019
- Thread starter Monkeygrinder's Organ
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Pink Panther
Well-Known Member
He batted at 3 for Surrey today (scored 14) which is a bit weird, as one of Ollie Pope or Aaron Finch will now bat at 6. If England intend to play him I would think he'll be pulled out of Surrey's game tomorrow, which has 2 more days to run.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think he'll be pulled anyway. I think that was always the plan. I'm still very far from convinced by Curran tbh. If conditions suit Curran, they will also suit Woakes, who is imo clearly the better bowler, and probably a better batsman. Batsmen somehow need long runs in the side, but bowlers don't get the same consideration. I know the arguments about that - a batsman can fail twice in a match even if he's playing well. But what about giving Woakes a decent run and allowing him to feel settled? Bowlers are expected to perform knowing they might be dropped any time.
Pink Panther
Well-Known Member
Woakes is certainly the more experienced cricketer and 9 years older. I agree that he deserves a run of matches, although injury has sometimes prevented this in the past. He bowled half the number of overs Archer did at Lord's so he certainly shouldn't need to be "rested" or rotated with someone similar.
Woakes has been strangely underused in both tests as he's actually done OK. I wonder if they are nursing some sort of background injury or is he just suffering the after affects of the WC as well?
Curran lacks the control and threat of Woakes. He's a decent prospect for the future but a direct swap now would seem to weaken the England attack.
Curran lacks the control and threat of Woakes. He's a decent prospect for the future but a direct swap now would seem to weaken the England attack.
I think the aussies need to get marnus labuschagne into the next test regardless of what is happening with Smith. If Smith isn't ready than its probably a straight forward like for like but if he does play they need to do something about the Head, Wade and Tim Paine middle order. Given Paine appears to be a specialist captain it won't be him but it should be as he's got out to some poor shots and his keeping is very ordinary.
It seems to me that concussion protocol are not up to the job in Cricket. If someone is showing signs of concussion on a Sunday it shouldn't even be a question whether they are alright to play the following Thursday. Automatic 1 week or 10 days out should be the norm.
It seems to me that concussion protocol are not up to the job in Cricket. If someone is showing signs of concussion on a Sunday it shouldn't even be a question whether they are alright to play the following Thursday. Automatic 1 week or 10 days out should be the norm.
Pink Panther
Well-Known Member
Dulwich Hamlet had a goalkeeper concussed in a pre-season game a few weeks back. He was told "you can't play for 2 weeks" and we signed a replacement on loan. I'm amazed Smith is even being considered to play only 4 days later.
Casual Observer
enough
It was announced before the game that Sam Curran would play two days and then be replaced by Conor McKerr. On that basis, it made sense for Curran to bat at 3 and get some (or all as it turned out) of his innings out of way before he left. McKerr is no Curran with the bat and he's apparently carrying a niggle. Curran started like a man in a hurry - nonchalantly pulling the chirping Fidel Edwards for 4 second ball - but petered out thereafter.
Sure, that's a big problem but one that's not easy to fix. He's a proven top level player, he's just having a bad series. They won't drop him but likewise you can't magically make someone find form.
The three I mention, well I'm questioning whether they are of a good enough standard to be playing test cricket and yet they have a guy who looks to have the right attitude and is familiar with the conditions yet he's only been given a chance because if Smith's injury and a brand new change in the laws.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Wade is in because he had a prolific Sheffield Shield. Don't think they would drop him. Head looks all over the place, but he's made a strong start to his test career. Paine is captain. So Labuschagne will come in for Smith, I would guess, postponing harder decisions to the fourth test. Bancroft also looks shite, mind. Labushagne looked like what he is, a man bang in form and full of confidence. leave, leave, leave, bang. Proper test cricket.
This time next year, I expect Steve Smith to be captain again tbh.
This time next year, I expect Steve Smith to be captain again tbh.
Agreed.
Neither Paine's batting or keeping is good enough at this level. He's done a job for them in regard to steadying a very shaky situation but now the suspensions are done and dusted it probably is time for them to move on. Give Wade the gloves.
Casual Observer
enough
Smith's ban isn't quite done and dusted. He was banned from playing for Australia for 12 months and banned from consideration for a leadership role for a further 12 months beyond that. The leadership part expires in March or April next year.
Casual Observer
enough
Common (and medical) sense prevails. Smith now officially ruled out of the third test.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Don't want him ruled out like that, want to see the best players, etc, etc.
That's a massive boost for England though isn't it.
That's a massive boost for England though isn't it.
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
Shades of McGrath tripping over the ball in warm up.
Gutted
Gutted
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's not quite as bad as losing McGrath - your best bowler is (well, should be) more important than your best batter - but someone's going to have to step up. Warner may be one piece of luck early in his innings away from a big score. He looked exceedingly glum on Sunday after getting out.
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
They're not in this current Australia team though are they. Do they even have an obvious best bowler? They could lose any one and bring in Starc, that's a strong position to be in. Smith is their best batsman by a huge distance though, him not being there will weaken them much more.
You feel England has to win this match now if they want the ashes. That was probably the case anyway but it just feels like a momentum swing and they need to make it happen. Just need to find a way to actually compile a decent 1st innings total and put some pressure on.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes fair point, but I think losing McGrath in 2005 was bigger than this. He had the wood on many of England's batsmen and his absence gave them new belief.
Ted Striker
Foot's on the other hand
I'm still a bit bemused by the Starc omission (to date). Is he injured?
He was the guy I was fearing the most this summer (not that the others haven't stepped up very very well). He seems to have that "I'm going to fuck these English up" mentality...
He was the guy I was fearing the most this summer (not that the others haven't stepped up very very well). He seems to have that "I'm going to fuck these English up" mentality...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He is occasionally wayward and expensive. Like Aus's previous left-arm Mitchell, he's a bit round-arm, which leads to wayward direction with the smallest mistake in timing the release. I'd have him in as well, but I also think it's just possible that Jason Roy could get going off a couple of Starc wide ones.
mhendo
Aussie in San Francisco
Yeah, for all of the moaning in this thread about England's terrible batting lineup, the fact is that, absent Smith, Australia also has a pretty average (by Test standards, on current form) upper and middle order. Labuschagne looked pretty damn good, and based on his innings the other day, and his current form in county cricket, I'd have him in the starting 11 even if Smith is able to play, and he'll obviously be in if Smith is out. They're probably unlikely to drop Warner, even though I think it would be a good idea, but I wouldn't complain if Bancroft were dropped either.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
In England's case, this lack of application has been many years in the making. The infamous Mitchell Johnson series in Aus was what, five years ago now. Somewhat oddly, England's first and second-highest scorers in that series, Kevin Pietersen and Michael Carberry, never played another test. Carberry scored just under 300 runs for ten dismissals. Modest, even if it was better than everyone else except Pietersen. But he was the team's highest scorer in the first innings and faced more balls than anybody else. In one particular innings, with Johnson in full flow, he was 12 not out at lunch on the first day. Aus commentators praised him for his application and physical bravery. The English press moaned that he wasn't good enough. And granted, Carberry was not the most gifted cricketer there has ever been, but not once in that series did he give his wicket away, even under the most extreme pressure. Such attributes simply weren't valued. 'We've got Cook to do that, so everyone else needs to be a swashbuckler' seemed to be the attitude. Immense folly.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Roy has been ruled ok for the test following being hit on the head by a bouncer thrown down by...Marcus Trescothick. 
England batsman Jason Roy passes concussion test for Headingley
England batsman Jason Roy passes concussion test for Headingley
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Am I evil to have the thought that it's a shame he passed that test?
Same for Compton really. Stupid thinking.
Pink Panther
Well-Known Member
I reckon Trescothick was hoping to be called up as the replacement. He couldn't really fare any worse opening the batting.
