The amount and pace of migration to the UK is unprecedented

[FamKa]

Disclaimer - I am not a Brexiteer, I am generally pro-immigration, my parents themselves arrived as refugees in the 1980s, I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background - not an exaggeration.
--
People seemingly love to point out how the Irish, Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people of the Commonwealth moved to Britain, therefore we are an immigrant nation. Despite the scale of these migrations being significantly smaller.

In the year ending June 2021, 573,000 people migrated into the UK.
There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022. Probably half of this was attributed to small boat arrivals across the Channel.

Am I the crazy one for thinking this is completely unsustainable?? People are surprised that housing is unaffordable when there is a huge demand for accommodation in London. Mind you, international migrants aren't exactly moving to rural Dorset... they're moving to areas already overpopulated. There are left-leaning opinion makers concerned about increasing automation, meanwhile they're supportive of the working class but simultaneously want to increase migration of low-skilled people to Britain. Do they comprehend how this is diluting the bargaining power of poorer, low-skilled native Brits?

Not to mention people clearly see a rapid change in the cultural character of their local area. Sure cultures change, but this pace of change is unprecedented because it isn't occurring gradually over the course of several decades. If you consider the "cultural cohesion argument" as nonsensical (which is your right), then I presume you will consider "gentrification changing the unique cultural character of an area" to be complete nonsense too?


Are you surprised that people voted in favour of Brexit, or traditional Labour areas voted for Conservatives, or people are increasingly buying into nonsense like "The Great Replacement" conspiracy? I fear that if social democracy does not enforce borders, Fascists will.

Perhaps I am a bit of a biased perspective considering I live somewhere that is the epicenter of immigration.

 

[muscovyduck]

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022.

Applications. Many of those will be refused. The UK is shit at taking refugees and has been for many years. I mean really shit, much shitter than most rich European countries.

But don't let facts get in the way of your prejudice.

 

[Tanya1982]

I also live in the 'epicenter' of immigration, if by that you mean London. I live in the very centre of it, in a very densely populated residential/commercial part. London is not overpopulated in global terms, or even when ranked alongside other western cities. It's about half the population density of NYC, and considerably less than Paris. In Britain, we have several (arguably many) population centres which are operating significantly below the capacity they were built for - Liverpool, Glasgow, Manchester, Birmingham, and many smaller ones too. There's quite a bit of actual slack.

How Britain chooses to build - or not - is a choice made in Britain, by British politicians, business, and voters.

It chooses to built rabbit hutches with individual postage stamp gardens, mainly for private provision. It chooses to built - or not build - schools, hospitals, and other services in the way it does. It chooses to sell off parks and playing fields rather than create them, enhance them, and protect them. It chooses to close or totally privatize leisure facilities rather than, for instance, building pools and outdoor gyms close to people's homes. It chooses to let very extensive transport infrastructure in cities like Glasgow and Liverpool wither, serving under half the population it was built to service.

 

[Santino]

Disclaimer - I am not a Brexiteer, I am generally pro-immigration, my parents themselves arrived as refugees in the 1980s, I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background - not an exaggeration.
--
People seemingly love to point out how the Irish, Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people of the Commonwealth moved to Britain, therefore we are an immigrant nation. Despite the scale of these migrations being significantly smaller.

In the year ending June 2021, 573,000 people migrated into the UK.
There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022. Probably half of this was attributed to small boat arrivals across the Channel.

Am I the crazy one for thinking this is completely unsustainable?? People are surprised that housing is unaffordable when there is a huge demand for accommodation in London. Mind you, international migrants aren't exactly moving to rural Dorset... they're moving to areas already overpopulated. There are left-leaning opinion makers concerned about increasing automation, meanwhile they're supportive of the working class but simultaneously want to increase migration of low-skilled people to Britain. Do they comprehend how this is diluting the bargaining power of poorer, low-skilled native Brits?

Not to mention people clearly see a rapid change in the cultural character of their local area. Sure cultures change, but this pace of change is unprecedented because it isn't occurring gradually over the course of several decades. If you consider the "cultural cohesion argument" as nonsensical (which is your right), then I presume you will consider "gentrification changing the unique cultural character of an area" to be complete nonsense too?


Are you surprised that people voted in favour of Brexit, or traditional Labour areas voted for Conservatives, or people are increasingly buying into nonsense like "The Great Replacement" conspiracy? I fear that if social democracy does not enforce borders, Fascists will.

Perhaps I am a bit of a biased perspective considering I live somewhere that is the epicenter of immigration.

You seem nice.

 

[hitmouse]

Interesting first post. I notice that you forgot to mention how many people emigrated out of the UK that same year.

 

[mojo pixy]

Disclaimer - I am not a Brexiteer, I am generally pro-immigration,

I suspect 'generally' is doing some serious lifting here.

my parents themselves arrived as refugees in the 1980s,

Everyone's ancestors were immigrants, this is an island in case you hadn't noticed.

I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background - not an exaggeration.

but so do you, as you posted - so what's your point?

People seemingly love to point out how the Irish, Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people of the Commonwealth moved to Britain, therefore we are an immigrant nation. Despite the scale of these migrations being significantly smaller.

Yes and the population as a whole was also smaller

In the year ending June 2021, 573,000 people migrated into the UK.

Welcome and good luck to them.

There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022. Probably half of this was attributed to small boat arrivals across the Channel.

There are no legal ways into the country without a visa, what do you expect refugees to do?

Am I the crazy one for thinking this is completely unsustainable??

Yes

People are surprised that housing is unaffordable when there is a huge demand for accommodation in London.

Immigration isn't pushing up house prices, speculation, hoarding, and landlordism are mainly to blame for that.

Mind you, international migrants aren't exactly moving to rural Dorset... they're moving to areas already overpopulated.

Define 'overpopulated'?

There are left-leaning opinion makers concerned about increasing automation, meanwhile they're supportive of the working class but simultaneously want to increase migration of low-skilled people to Britain. Do they comprehend how this is diluting the bargaining power of poorer, low-skilled native Brits?

Maybe you could explain in more detail, it'd help me to see better where you're coming from.

Not to mention people clearly see a rapid change in the cultural character of their local area.

Have you any examples to point to? Are you thinking of any local areas in particular?

Sure cultures change, but this pace of change is unprecedented because it isn't occurring gradually over the course of several decades.

Yes it is. You're probably just older than you think you are.

If you consider the "cultural cohesion argument" as nonsensical (which is your right),

What things are universally British, would you say? What things are universally British but not attributable to non-brits? What kind of stuff makes us special, what have you in mind here that someone else might call nonsense?

then I presume you will consider "gentrification changing the unique cultural character of an area" to be complete nonsense too?

Gentrification is to do with wealth not culture. It's to do with making areas less affordable and more exclusive, not just about places changing character in general terms. You're comparing different things, immigration isn't equivalent to gentrification, unless you're talking about mega-rich foreigners "taking over" Mayfair, Belgravia, Kensington etc. Is that the immigration which concerns you most, just to be clear?

Are you surprised that people voted in favour of Brexit, or traditional Labour areas voted for Conservatives,

People voted Leave for loads of reasons, it wasn't just about immigration (which is increasing regardless - it's where people are migrating from that is changing)

or people are increasingly buying into nonsense like "The Great Replacement" conspiracy?

No they aren't, you racist shit

I fear that if social democracy does not enforce borders, Fascists will.

No they won't

Perhaps I am a bit of a biased perspective considering I live somewhere that is the epicenter of immigration.

You sure are a biased perspective. I think your dog whistles are unwelcome here, as I expect you will soon find out.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

another

 

[Tanya1982]

Can I ask, of what relevance is your parents heritage? It's stated at the start, so it must be related to what follows, in your own mind. It's not clear that it's meant to be doing anything other than a lot of heavy lifting for a lot of subsequent prejudice, misinformation, and generalization about a lot of other people and a country that consistently chooses to compound it's challenges, while underselling or ignoring a heartbreaking amount of potential, best practice, and evidence based policy making.

 

[eatmorecheese]

Disclaimer - I am not a Brexiteer, I am generally pro-immigration, my parents themselves arrived as refugees in the 1980s, I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background - not an exaggeration.
--
People seemingly love to point out how the Irish, Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people of the Commonwealth moved to Britain, therefore we are an immigrant nation. Despite the scale of these migrations being significantly smaller.

In the year ending June 2021, 573,000 people migrated into the UK.
There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022. Probably half of this was attributed to small boat arrivals across the Channel.

Am I the crazy one for thinking this is completely unsustainable?? People are surprised that housing is unaffordable when there is a huge demand for accommodation in London. Mind you, international migrants aren't exactly moving to rural Dorset... they're moving to areas already overpopulated. There are left-leaning opinion makers concerned about increasing automation, meanwhile they're supportive of the working class but simultaneously want to increase migration of low-skilled people to Britain. Do they comprehend how this is diluting the bargaining power of poorer, low-skilled native Brits?

Not to mention people clearly see a rapid change in the cultural character of their local area. Sure cultures change, but this pace of change is unprecedented because it isn't occurring gradually over the course of several decades. If you consider the "cultural cohesion argument" as nonsensical (which is your right), then I presume you will consider "gentrification changing the unique cultural character of an area" to be complete nonsense too?


Are you surprised that people voted in favour of Brexit, or traditional Labour areas voted for Conservatives, or people are increasingly buying into nonsense like "The Great Replacement" conspiracy? I fear that if social democracy does not enforce borders, Fascists will.

Perhaps I am a bit of a biased perspective considering I live somewhere that is the epicenter of immigration.

Go away.

 

[tim]

This is the epicentre of people who don't like fuckers like you. So, please fuck off. It would be great to replace you with somebody nice.

 

[FamKa]

Can I ask, of what relevance is your parents heritage? It's stated at the start, so it must be related to what follows, in your own mind. It's not clear that it's meant to be doing anything other than a lot of heavy lifting for a lot of subsequent prejudice, misinformation, and generalization about a lot of other people and a country that consistently chooses to compound it's challenges, while underselling or ignoring a heartbreaking amount of potential, best practice, and evidence based policy making.

You may be right. I have made a lot of generalizations, I agree the current Tory government appears to confound the issue. I have indeed been misled by misinformation.

I was wrong to come across as confrontational and hostile.

Britain should absolutely give asylum to Iranians, Eritreans, Afghans and Iraqis.
However, I still feel immigration should be reduced, not to zero. Compassionate but also fair and firm. Speedier asylum decisions, admission to people who qualify and speedy deportations.

 

[tonysingh]

Disclaimer - I am not a Brexiteer, I am generally pro-immigration, my parents themselves arrived as refugees in the 1980s, I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background - not an exaggeration.
--
People seemingly love to point out how the Irish, Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people of the Commonwealth moved to Britain, therefore we are an immigrant nation. Despite the scale of these migrations being significantly smaller.

In the year ending June 2021, 573,000 people migrated into the UK.
There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022. Probably half of this was attributed to small boat arrivals across the Channel.

Am I the crazy one for thinking this is completely unsustainable?? People are surprised that housing is unaffordable when there is a huge demand for accommodation in London. Mind you, international migrants aren't exactly moving to rural Dorset... they're moving to areas already overpopulated. There are left-leaning opinion makers concerned about increasing automation, meanwhile they're supportive of the working class but simultaneously want to increase migration of low-skilled people to Britain. Do they comprehend how this is diluting the bargaining power of poorer, low-skilled native Brits?

Not to mention people clearly see a rapid change in the cultural character of their local area. Sure cultures change, but this pace of change is unprecedented because it isn't occurring gradually over the course of several decades. If you consider the "cultural cohesion argument" as nonsensical (which is your right), then I presume you will consider "gentrification changing the unique cultural character of an area" to be complete nonsense too?


Are you surprised that people voted in favour of Brexit, or traditional Labour areas voted for Conservatives, or people are increasingly buying into nonsense like "The Great Replacement" conspiracy? I fear that if social democracy does not enforce borders, Fascists will.

Perhaps I am a bit of a biased perspective considering I live somewhere that is the epicenter of immigration.

Fuck off.

You may be right. I have made a lot of generalizations, I agree the current Tory government appears to confound the issue. I have indeed been misled by misinformation.

I was wrong to come across as confrontational and hostile.

Britain should absolutely give asylum to Iranians, Eritreans, Afghans and Iraqis.
However, I still feel immigration should be reduced, not to zero. Compassionate but also fair and firm. Speedier asylum decisions, admission to people who qualify and speedy deportations.

Fuck off some more.


Why only Iranians, Eritreans, Afghans and Iraqis? Britain still occupies a part of the country my father came from. As far as I am concerned, the more of us here, the better.

 

[FamKa]

Why only Iranians, Eritreans, Afghans and Iraqis? Britain still occupies a part of the country my father came from. As far as I am concerned, the more of us here, the better.

Because they're most of the asylum applicants of recent years? I wasn't suggesting they must be the only ones who should be accepted.
Also, occupied?? I'm not familiar with anywhere in the world that Britain currently occupies. Presumably you mean Akrotiri & Dhekelia in Cyprus or somewhere like Bermuda/Virgin Islands? Yes, I agree Britain should GTFO of overseas territories.

EDIT: unless you mean Northern Ireland. They should put it to a vote, why not? Whether they leave or not is up to them.

 

[kalidarkone]

You may be right. I have made a lot of generalizations, I agree the current Tory government appears to confound the issue. I have indeed been misled by misinformation.

I was wrong to come across as confrontational and hostile.

Britain should absolutely give asylum to Iranians, Eritreans, Afghans and Iraqis.
However, I still feel immigration should be reduced, not to zero. Compassionate but also fair and firm. Speedier asylum decisions, admission to people who qualify and speedy deportations.

Who will work in the NHS and all the other areas that have staff shortages?

Why does the UK have all these shortages? What happened to the people? Where did they go?

Are you aware of the huge overseas nurse and doctor programme within the NHS?

 

[tonysingh]

Because they're most of the asylum applicants of recent years? I wasn't suggesting they must be the only ones who should be accepted.
Also, occupied?? I'm not familiar with anywhere in the world that Britain currently occupies. Presumably you mean Akrotiri & Dhekelia in Cyprus or somewhere like Bermuda/Virgin Islands? Yes, I agree Britain should GTFO of overseas territories.

Try again there.

I was born here, the first of my generation actually, after my father and most of that line had come from a country only just overseas but overseas nonetheless and still occupied by British forces and British proxies.

You also pretty much were suggesting those on your list were the only acceptable immigrants because guess what? You named them!

 

[Humberto]

And '63,000' asylum seekers is paltry, and most genuine.

 

[FamKa]

Who will work in the NHS and all the other areas that have staff shortages?

Why does the UK have all these shortages? What happened to the people? Where did they go?

Are you aware of the huge overseas nurse and doctor programme within the NHS?

Increase university places and the starting pay of domestic nurses/doctors to make it a more attractive career option perhaps.

 

[kalidarkone]

Increase university places and the starting pay of domestic nurses/doctors perhaps.

Who will do the work while enough British people retrain/ train to address the shortages in health and social care?

Why has the number of people working in health and social care dropped to an all time low?

Where did the previous staff go?

 

[Tanya1982]

You may be right. I have made a lot of generalizations, I agree the current Tory government appears to confound the issue. I have indeed been misled by misinformation.

I was wrong to come across as confrontational and hostile.

Britain should absolutely give asylum to Iranians, Eritreans, Afghans and Iraqis.
However, I still feel immigration should be reduced, not to zero. Compassionate but also fair and firm. Speedier asylum decisions, admission to people who qualify and speedy deportations.

There are many others in addition to those four nationalities. As climate crises and wars intensify, it will only grow, and if a society like Britain can't level with its population, consult them, inform them, involve them, and make reality actually benefit them, then it's going to be ugly. That's not the fault of people in rubber dinghies, but an active choice made by people in power in Britain, and those who put/keep them there.

In purely practical terms, there is enough brownfield land in British cities to house millions of extra people, comfortably, and attractively, and beneficially to the existing population, without building a single brick on any green belt, or in any currently rural location. And I'm not talking about dystopian tower blocks, but simply to what's considered normal (even desirable) and sustainable in the cities of other western countries.

As you admit in your opening salvo, even with the current unplanned mess of services falling apart or being sold off while being expected to cater for more people, there are locations like Dorset which are as untroubled as ever by any of this, so it's not a question of concreting over beauty spots or turning quaint villages into São Paulo II. Our problem isn't too many migrants with nowhere conceivable to house anybody.

 

[tonysingh]

Most of those claiming asylum here are doing so because the British and their allies so utterly fucked up their countries in the first place. It's only proper that this country pays its debt by allowing said asylum seekers leave to remain.

 

[Humberto]

Most of those claiming asylum here are doing so because the British and their allies so utterly fucked up their countries in the first place. It's only proper that this country pays its debt by allowing said asylum seekers leave to remain.

Agree. And we don't as a nation.

 

[tonysingh]

Agree. And we don't as a nation.

For such a small nation, the British really have caused a lot of suffering around the world. That cannot be undone, not can we pay reparations in the literal sense. What we can do though is help with infrastructure in said countries and allow those that need or want to come here to do so. Anything else is still a form of imperialism imho

 

[Humberto]

For such a small nation, the British really have caused a lot of suffering around the world. That cannot be undone, not can we pay reparations in the literal sense. What we can do though is help with infrastructure in said countries and allow those that need or want to come here to do so. Anything else is still a form of imperialism imho

You may well be right, I don't disagree. Britain though doesn't shoulder it's fair share in any case despite all the hysterical panic-mongering of the wankers in the Tory Tabloids.

 

[FamKa]

There are many others in addition to those four nationalities. As climate crises and wars intensify, it will only grow, and if a society like Britain can't level with its population, consult them, inform them, involve them, and make reality actually benefit them, then it's going to be ugly. That's not the fault of people in rubber dinghies, but an active choice made by people in power in Britain, and those who put/keep them there.

In purely practical terms, there is enough brownfield land in British cities to house millions of extra people, comfortably, and attractively, and beneficially to the existing population, without building a single brick on any green belt, or in any currently rural location. And I'm not talking about dystopian tower blocks, but simply to what's considered normal (even desirable) and sustainable in the cities of other western countries.

As you admit in your opening salvo, even with the current unplanned mess of services falling apart or being sold off while being expected to cater for more people, there are locations like Dorset which are as untroubled as ever by any of this, so it's not a question of concreting over beauty spots or turning quaint villages into São Paulo II. Our problem isn't too many migrants with nowhere conceivable to house anybody.

It's not like climate change doesn't/won't affect Europe either. I hope at least today's developing countries like Bangladesh (which happens to be one of the fastest growing economies in the world) will in the near future come to a point where they will be able readily confront the challenges posed by climate change much in the same way a developed country would respond to something like flooding or storms.

 

[harpo]

Who will do the work while enough British people retrain/ train to address the shortages in health and social care?

Why has the number of people working in health and social care dropped to an all time low?

Where did the previous staff go?

Ahem, brexit.

 

[FamKa]

For such a small nation, the British really have caused a lot of suffering around the world. That cannot be undone, not can we pay reparations in the literal sense. What we can do though is help with infrastructure in said countries and allow those that need or want to come here to do so. Anything else is still a form of imperialism imho

I imagine it depends on the country. Don't really see somewhere like Singapore or Botswana requiring the help of Britain. Infrastructure development could be a good investment in order to improve relations and maintaining soft power around the world.

 

[tonysingh]

I imagine it depends on the country. Don't really see somewhere like Singapore or Botswana requiring the help of Britain. Infrastructure development could be a good investment in order to improve relations and maintaining soft power around the world.

You've misunderstood my intent. Soft power is not in the equation for me. Infrastructure and economic development should be done so that these countries can build safer and more beneficial futures for their people, regardless of any benefit for Britain. It's much more to do with correcting previous errors

 

[danny la rouge]

I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background

100% of all populations migrated from somewhere else at some point.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Disclaimer - I am not a Brexiteer, I am generally pro-immigration, my parents themselves arrived as refugees in the 1980s, I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background - not an exaggeration.
--
People seemingly love to point out how the Irish, Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people of the Commonwealth moved to Britain, therefore we are an immigrant nation. Despite the scale of these migrations being significantly smaller.

In the year ending June 2021, 573,000 people migrated into the UK.
There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022. Probably half of this was attributed to small boat arrivals across the Channel.

Am I the crazy one for thinking this is completely unsustainable?? People are surprised that housing is unaffordable when there is a huge demand for accommodation in London. Mind you, international migrants aren't exactly moving to rural Dorset... they're moving to areas already overpopulated. There are left-leaning opinion makers concerned about increasing automation, meanwhile they're supportive of the working class but simultaneously want to increase migration of low-skilled people to Britain. Do they comprehend how this is diluting the bargaining power of poorer, low-skilled native Brits?

Not to mention people clearly see a rapid change in the cultural character of their local area. Sure cultures change, but this pace of change is unprecedented because it isn't occurring gradually over the course of several decades. If you consider the "cultural cohesion argument" as nonsensical (which is your right), then I presume you will consider "gentrification changing the unique cultural character of an area" to be complete nonsense too?


Are you surprised that people voted in favour of Brexit, or traditional Labour areas voted for Conservatives, or people are increasingly buying into nonsense like "The Great Replacement" conspiracy? I fear that if social democracy does not enforce borders, Fascists will.

Perhaps I am a bit of a biased perspective considering I live somewhere that is the epicenter of immigration.

I notice you haven't bothered to cite the annual outflows through emigration.