Thatcher is dead

[october_lost]

Here is something that went through my head as I was lying [sp?] in bed on Monday evening.

I did ponder on people's joy at her death. Thatcher wouldn't have cared anyway but,you know, when my Mama died people were sad and when my brother died recently (I have not mentioned it before on here, only alluded to: he died at the end of January; like my mother of cancer) people were sad. I am sure not everyone liked them but I cannot think of a single person who would have jubilated (is that a verb?) their death.

I pondered over this, partly because I thought I would be more satisfied with her death than I had been. As a side, I think the inertia is because her legacy is going from strength to strength and we all know that. There are things going down she could never even of dreamed of.

I also wasn't sure outside of the politicos I knew, how acceptable it would be to go over her death as something positive. I don't like the left/right dichtomy thats being developed. Its fucking tedious. On a surface level arent the 'left' supposed to transcend this inhumane bullshit. Well here's the thing, Brecht put it aptly when he said "bread first, morals later" and that woman stole in abundance, not only people's livelihood, but also most damningly, peoples hope and concept of community.

We should leave moralising to people who can afford it.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Despite feeling guilty about my celebrations at some points of the day on Wednesday I now reckon they are in some way justified.

I've just read today's El Pais, which mentioned the celebrations in Brixton amongst other places, and I think they're going to make a huge difference to how people remember her passing a century from now. If there had been a more austere reaction from the left, history would have been more likely to record her death as an event of national mourning. It will now be recorded as as a time of national division and those pictures of people dancing in St. George's and Windrush Squares are making an impact on people around the world.

Two months ago a man in a bar in Madrid was watching the TV news whislt sipping his drink. I was stood next to him. Thatcher appeared on the television and I said, "I hate that woman." He replied, "Her people loved her! They called her The Iron Lady!" I doubt he'll be so unequivocal in future.

Maybe as a primitive reaction, it was somewhat gruesome, somewhat out-of-place, maybe it was a strategic error in the short-term. In the long-run, those who have "danced on her grave" as it were, have probably done the right thing.


EDIT - Brixton makes it into El Pais.

http://internacional.elpais.com/internacional/2013/04/09/actualidad/1365527742_914443.html

We've had a fair few disagreements recently - on the Chavez thread in particular - but fair play, that's a cracking post. Really good point re: the impact of celebrations on the way she will be viewed historically - the right may eventually regret making such a big deal of it. By shitting out their hypocritical moralism on the pages of every newspaper these sanctimonious clowns have made sure than anyone looking back at newspaper archives cannot fail to discover that she wasn't exactly universally loved.

 

[Favelado]

We've had a fair few disagreements recently - on the Chavez thread in particular - but fair play, that's a cracking post. Really good point re: the impact of celebrations on the way she will be viewed historically - the right may eventually regret making such a big deal of it. By shitting out their hypocritical moralism on the pages of every newspaper these sanctimonious clowns have made sure than anyone looking back at newspaper archives cannot fail to discover that she wasn't exactly universally loved.

The simple truth is I think there might be genuine cause for serious concerns about Chávez and we'd be better off being nice about Dilma in Brazil than him but I wasn't well informed enough to follow up an exuberant OP with a strong argument. I typed my gut reaction enthusiastically on the spur of the moment and paid the price as the replies come in.

I'm on safer ground here obviously and the point I've made about historical context seems increasingly valid. Thanks for your reply.

 

[shifting gears]

 

[happie chappie]

Fucking brilliant - buy that man a pint.

 

[treelover]

Seems like a good opportunity for the middle-class, non-working, Heeley-living, wine-drinking, King Ted's-attending, pseudo-socialist "artists," comfortable-living drop outs and trustafarians of Sheffield to come out and try to prove themselves as left-wing or vaguely working-class. To take some of Orwell's words, the 'dreary tribe of high-minded sandal-wearers and bearded fruit-juice drinkers' have never 'flock[ed] towards the smell of ‘progress’ like bluebottles to a dead cat' so desperately.

not really true

 

[treelover]

He's mirroring some of the people on here who actually think that

actually I don't, I imagine a fair few read the predecessor of The Sun, the left leaning Daily Herald, but the Sun is still a pathetic rag...

 

[JTG]

Fucking brilliant - buy that man a pint.

here's the original:

 

[shifting gears]

Fucking brilliant - buy that man a pint.

Brought a little tear to my eye, proper rousing choruses

 

[JTG]

Brought a little tear to my eye, proper rousing choruses

it's just marvelous isn't it

 

[happie chappie]

it's just marvelous isn't it

Would be great if a large group of miners could sing that on the funeral route on Weds.

 

[weepiper]

here's the original:

Is that Don Valley singing in the pub in Sheffield? He looks a bit like him

 

[treelover]

Special Question Time on now from Finchley: two tories, one limp dem, Blunkett and Polly Toynbee, really balanced...

 

[treelover]

Is that Don Valley singing in the pub in Sheffield? He looks a bit like him

yes, he is a project manager now and according to the radio was a bit reluctant to sing it...

 

[Lord Camomile]

Special Question Time on now from Finchley: two tories, one limp dem, Blunkett and Polly Toynbee, really balanced...

Nope, lasted about five seconds of Blunkett and hit mute.

 

[happie chappie]

yes, he is a project manager now and according to the radio was a bit reluctant to sing it...

He'll probably be an ex-project manager by the time the Daily Mail have finished with him

If he's gay then their froth-o-meter will truly go off the scale.

 

[not-bono-ever]

has this been posted ? Leake street tunnel

 

[ferrelhadley]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inful-tweets-sick-Scotland-Yard-sergeant.html

Next in the sights of the hate mob (there was a thread about this wasnt there?)

 

[happie chappie]

has this been posted ? Leake street tunnel

Yes it has - but I'll never tire of looking at it.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Special Question Time on now from Finchley: two tories, one limp dem, Blunkett and Polly Toynbee, really balanced...

Owen Jones too hungover to make it this evening.

 

[weepiper]

West Belfast

 

[Lord Camomile]

The heart is a nice touch.

 

[happie chappie]

has this been posted ? Leake street tunnel

It's now my computer background shot!

 

[weepiper]

Football fans in Cyprus

 

[DotCommunist]

Census of the seventh circle of hell?

9th. Judases and that

 

[Favelado]

The phrase "Thatcher defeated socialism" is everywhere this week and there's an implication attached to that statement that because Thatcherism "won" it was also right.

We lost the Spanish Civil War as well you know. I don't think there are many politicians queueing up to make the same kind of connection between Franco's victory and superiority there. When we lose, it's painful but it doesn't change the fact that the broad left, in its various forms, is committed to fundamentally better values than our avaristic, destructive foes.

Don't give up lefties - we suffer but only because having principles is painful.

Buenas noches camaradas.

 

[2hats]

Special Question Time on now from Finchley: two tories, one limp dem, Blunkett and Polly Toynbee, really balanced...

But at least Moore didn't let us down did he? Sputtering like an unhinged loon again on the same subject he'd embarrassed himself over yesterday (queue another paranoid rant about the BBC). Shame he didn't ever manage to stay awake through the haze of cigars and port each Christmas to follow the plot of that particular musical. The song in question is also sung when the wicked witch of the west dies.

e2a: for those who did not watch - he lamely attempted to mock the choice of the song because, so he thought, it is sung when the wicked witch of the east dies - clearly a reference to the collapse of communism meaning the newly enstiffened ex PM must be the heroine Dorothy (oh hang on, she had red shoes didn't she..?).

 

[Delroy Booth]

The phrase "Thatcher defeated socialism" is everywhere this week and there's an implication attached to that statement that because Thatcherism "won" it was also right.

We lost the Spanish Civil War as well you know. I don't think there are many politicians queueing up to make the same kind of connection between Franco's victory and superiority there. When we lose, it's painful but it doesn't change the fact that the broad left, in its various forms, is committed to fundamentally better values than our avaristic, destructive foes.

Don't give up lefties - we suffer but only because having principles is painful.

Buenas noches camaradas.

She didn't though, did she? I mean she won the battle but we're still here, broken and battered true, but still here. A fire's not out until you put out the embers.

There's plenty of opportunity for a rallying-round and regroup type of thing to happen on the British left, especially in view of the demise of the SWP, more opportunity than at any point in my brief, unproductive, life. We won't take that opportunity unless we drop this "socialism is dead" nonsense it's nothing more than a platitude.

If socialism is dead now then fuck me I dread to think how you'd have dealt with the aftermath of the general strike, or the post 1848 decline of british socialism.

 

[Favelado]

Well, I was only accepting the premise that we'd lost in order to make the point about morality - hence me putting "won" in inverted commas the first time I used it.

I agree with you.

 

[rekil]

HRHs William and Harry's reaction to next week's Thatcher death panto today