TfL denied Uber operator license, ride hailing service wins on appeal (Sept 2020)

[beesonthewhatnow]

A sexual assault accusation against one of its drivers every 11 days should be very worrying to uber.

I'd be more interested in seeing how this compares to standard minicabs/passenger journey numbers.

While that number is clearly horrendous is it specifically higher for Uber? Or is it a problem across all private cabs?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm guessing that many uber drivers don't have enough funds to pay the whole lot up front so it would make sense to have a finance scheme in place.

I look forward to the company writing off the loans now that they can no longer provide them with work.

'partner drivers'

*puke*

 

[cupid_stunt]

It really is as straight forward as this isn't it?

I really think tfl and a lot of people want uber to exist. It's just whats the point in having any regulation if you don't enforce it?

Of course it is. Uber has been warned time & time again, but failed to reform, I firmly believe it's because they have grown too fast & lost control of the situation, rather than just thinking they are too big to be taken down, but I could be wrong.

TfL had to act, they can't allow the biggest cab operator to ignore them & the regulations, Uber will just have to step up to the mark and sort their mess out.

 

[Teaboy]

Two points:

1. Nobody is supporting Uber or their buisness model - I don't think my comments on that could be clearer
2. We do 'rail against multi nationals' but I would like to see them bought to heel by worker organisation, not 40,000 of them made poorer by a licensing authority.

OK but until the glorious day comes should tfl just turn a blind eye to continual flouting of rules and regulations because it could be worse? A

I'm willing to take a bet from you that no uber driver will lose out over this. This isn't something that's just happened out of the blue, tfl and uber have been talking for ages and tfl have obviously decided to call their bluff.

This is about uber and it's arrogance that the rules apply to everyone else except them. If any driver loses out because of this the blame lays squarely at their door.

 

[Teaboy]

I'd be more interested in seeing how this compares to standard minicabs/passenger journey numbers.

While that number is clearly horrendous is it specifically higher for Uber? Or is it a problem across all private cabs?

That's a very good point.

 

[TruXta]

You asked why I said TfL's safety argument was bizarre. I answered.

With some bs whataboutery. Well done.

 

[editor]

I'd be more interested in seeing how this compares to standard minicabs/passenger journey numbers.

While that number is clearly horrendous is it specifically higher for Uber? Or is it a problem across all private cabs?

It's certainly a well documented problem - there's been several high profile advertising campaigns about the perils of getting in unlicensed cabs before the arrival of Uber - but, as you say, it would be interesting to see how it compares against other cabs.

I would have thought that the fact that the name and number of Uber drivers is tracked and recorded, they would be less likely to assault passengers compared to cabs you just ring up and know nothing about, but I've no idea if that is true or not.

 

[Teaboy]

There is another thing and that an unlicensed cab essentially means unregulated. If uber (or any other cab firm) are not complying with the regulations than what is the difference?

We are fully regulated, we just ignore those regulations.

 

[editor]

Some stats here
More than 400 London cab drivers charged with crimes last year

 

[maomao]

Perhaps. A sexual assault allegation every 11 days suggests its not exactly safe though.

Tbf they have 30,00 drivers and probably do a couple of hundred thousand jobs a day. The firm I worked with longest did about 1.2 million jobs over 7 years and had two complaints of sexual harassment in that time. It's more about how they've dealt with those complaints.

 

[ash]

are you 12?
it would feel a bit weird in a taxi anyway

And there isn't usually a seat in a black can its luggage space

 

[Pickman's model]

are you 12?
it would feel a bit weird in a taxi anyway

What a question to ask someone who registered in 2003

 

[cupid_stunt]

I'd be more interested in seeing how this compares to standard minicabs/passenger journey numbers.

While that number is clearly horrendous is it specifically higher for Uber? Or is it a problem across all private cabs?

Likewise.

It's a thought I had when I first posted the figure of the Met investigating a new rape or sexual claim against a Uber driver every 11 days. But, OTOH, I am not sure it matters for two reasons:

1 - All private cab firms need proper regulation & control, it's not one or the other.

2 - Uber is the biggest, and in by far the best financial position to ensure it checks the drivers' documents, and seems to have systematically failed to do so, despite repeated warnings. Plus there's the claim from the Met that they have failed to report serious crimes.

Should such claims be made & proven against smaller operators, they should also be refused renewal of their licences.

 

[Pickman's model]

And there isn't usually a seat in a black can its luggage space

Or where the cabbie keeps his stuff

 

[Teaboy]

What a question to ask someone who registered in 2003

Parents register their kids for urban before they are born. Its a bit like Eton in that respect.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I'm willing to take a bet from you that no uber driver will lose out over this. This isn't something that's just happened out of the blue, tfl and uber have been talking for ages and tfl have obviously decided to call their bluff.
.

Good of you to be so sanguine on their behalf but it's not what their union (the IWGB) is saying or the GMB for that matter. They are saying its 'devestating' news for the workers.

I am genuinely shocked that 'the left' seem to think TfL has delivered a hammer blow to private equity capitalism. Seriously?

 

[Pickman's model]

Good of you to be so sanguine on their behalf but it's not what their union (the IWGB) is saying or the GMB for that matter. They are saying its 'devestating' news for the workers.

I am genuinely shocked that 'the left' seem to think TfL has delivered a hammer blow to private equity capitalism. Seriously?

Aren't the gmb and iwgb as unions of 'the left'?

 

[bemused]

I'm very interested to see the public response to this. Uber is one of the basic transport tools now in London, the threat of removing it may have some interesting political outcomes if the public mood swings against TfL - not the most popular London regulatory board in the first place.

 

[Teaboy]

Good of you to be so sanguine on their behalf but it's not what their union (the IWGB) is saying or the GMB for that matter. They are saying its 'devestating' news for the workers.

I am genuinely shocked that 'the left' seem to think TfL has delivered a hammer blow to private equity capitalism. Seriously?

Is anyone saying that though?

I'm genuinely shocked that you think a company that has time and time again flouted rules which are there to protect us should be allowed to carry on regardless because they are a big company.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

IWGB statement

Our reaction to TfL's decision today to revoke #Uber's license:

James Farrar, co-claimant in landmark employment tribunal decision against Uber and chair of the Independent Workers' Union of Great Britain's (IWGB) United Private Hire Drivers (UPHD) branch said:

"This is a devastating blow for 30,000 Londoners who now face losing their job and being saddled with unmanageable vehicle related debt.To strip Uber of it's license after five years of laissez faire regulation is a testament to a systemic failure at TfL. Rather than banish Uber, TfL should have strengthened its regulatory oversight, curbed runaway licensing and protected the worker rights of drivers. The Mayor must call for an urgent independent review of TfL to identify the causes of failure and prevent something like this from ever happening again."

Spot on

 

[Teaboy]

I'm very interested to see the public response to this. Uber is one of the basic transport tools now in London, the threat of removing it may have some interesting political outcomes if the public mood swings against TfL - not the most popular London regulatory board in the first place.

Me too. They are going to come under a lot of pressure of this, they surely knew that though?

 

[Teaboy]

IWGB statement

Our reaction to TfL's decision today to revoke #Uber's license:

James Farrar, co-claimant in landmark employment tribunal decision against Uber and chair of the Independent Workers' Union of Great Britain's (IWGB) United Private Hire Drivers (UPHD) branch said:

"This is a devastating blow for 30,000 Londoners who now face losing their job and being saddled with unmanageable vehicle related debt.To strip Uber of it's license after five years of laissez faire regulation is a testament to a systemic failure at TfL. Rather than banish Uber, TfL should have strengthened its regulatory oversight, curbed runaway licensing and protected the worker rights of drivers. The Mayor must call for an urgent independent review of TfL to identify the causes of failure and prevent something like this from ever happening again."

Spot on

Sure, I don't think anyone would argue with that but it does though, remove any responsibility from uber. The alternative is that uber does like every other cab company and just comply.

 

[phillm]

I'm very interested to see the public response to this. Uber is one of the basic transport tools now in London, the threat of removing it may have some interesting political outcomes if the public mood swings against TfL - not the most popular London regulatory board in the first place.

262k now manning the petition barricades - all together now - What do we want ? Uber ! When do we want it ? NOW !

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Sure, I don't think anyone would argue with that.

Well you have.....

 

[redsquirrel]

IWGB statement

Our reaction to TfL's decision today to revoke #Uber's license:

James Farrar, co-claimant in landmark employment tribunal decision against Uber and chair of the Independent Workers' Union of Great Britain's (IWGB) United Private Hire Drivers (UPHD) branch said:

"This is a devastating blow for 30,000 Londoners who now face losing their job and being saddled with unmanageable vehicle related debt.To strip Uber of it's license after five years of laissez faire regulation is a testament to a systemic failure at TfL. Rather than banish Uber, TfL should have strengthened its regulatory oversight, curbed runaway licensing and protected the worker rights of drivers. The Mayor must call for an urgent independent review of TfL to identify the causes of failure and prevent something like this from ever happening again."

Spot on

He's completely right the TfL, and other bodies, should have cracked down on Uber much, much earlier. That doesn't mean that they should continue to let Uber flout regulations.

 

[Teaboy]

Well you have.....

I guess I have.

I do get where you're coming from, its horrible for the workers to have this hanging over them. I've been made redundant twice in my life with nothing more than my last month's wages. Its two groups of suits having a fall out and as ever the workers are going to be the ones who pay.

What I can't get my head around though is why anyone would not hold uber themselves wholly to blame for this. The accusations against them are pretty serious and you can do all you like with regulations but if one party isn't interested in following them what do you do?

 

[binka]

What I can't get my head around though is why anyone would not hold uber themselves wholly to blame for this. The accusations against them are pretty serious and you can do all you like with regulations but if one party isn't interested in following them what do you do?

I don't think anyone can reasonably blame anyone other than Uber for this. They are a shit company I just don't think they're particularly worse than any private hire company or a bus company like Stagecoach.

The app itself though is brilliant. The ideal situation would be the app run as some sort of workers co-operative with local authority oversight to make sure regulations are adhered to and drivers are entitled to sick pay and can accrue holiday pay. Not sure how likely that is though

 

[Raheem]

The ideal situation would be the app run as some sort of workers co-operative with local authority oversight to make sure regulations are adhered to and drivers are entitled to sick pay and can accrue holiday pay. Not sure how likely that is though

Well, there may be about to be a gap in the market.

 

[Maharani]

I was actually really upset when that cabby told me not to buy the house I am living in. It was the most blatant racism I had directly experienced at the time, and it left me feeling quite shaken.

of course, it didn't affect whether I bought the house, but it did shake my feeling of being safe in black cabs, which is one of the reasons I bought the house (East Croydon station - black cabs all night, as in another post on here).

Did you report this?

 

[Pickman's model]

Most of the black cabs round my way (SW London) are driven by black or asian descent guys anyway. I think its more when you get towards Central London you get the cliched cockney racist.

Yeh my cabby mate's of indian descent