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SWP expulsions and squabbles

SpineyNorman said:
No you didn't - you fucked off to the bogs half way through to do some k. We know you did because you went to the bogs half way through then told people you'd gone there to do k.

This is genuinely triggering behaviour for a recovering addict - triggering in the sense that it can prompt a re-lapse, not triggering in the sense that I need an excuse for having fucked off to the bogs to do k so I'll say it was triggering.

You're the one talking out of your arse, I've done similar things in the past so don't try and bullshit me. (though not as cowardly as that - I've never used sexual assault as an excuse - and I only did it because I had to to stop physical withdrawals)

And you fucking love student politics, its all you ever do, so don't come that one either.
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lol. Seriously mate I never did K in the toilets. I fucked off to the bogs in the student bar to do some k, but I hadn't even picked the shit up until after the meeting. And when was I meant to have told people this? I had a conversation with a SPEW at the bar where I told them I'd just had some K, and a brief one--about the meeting--with another SPEW as I was leaving the meeting. So when did I say 'Oh I went to do some K' in the meeting? Did I stand up and make a contribution? I was genuinely so angered by your student orgs appalling comments I left to calm down. But I guess you can believe what you want. Honestly there's plenty of stuff to criticize people over no need to make stuff up. How very wadical.
 
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Direlectics said:
lol. Seriously mate I never did K in the toilets. I fucked off to the bogs in the student bar to do some k, but I hadn't even picked the shit up until after the meeting. And when was I meant to have told people this? I had a conversation with a SPEW at the bar where I told them I'd just had some K, and a brief one--about the meeting--with another SPEW as I was leaving the meeting. So when did I say 'Oh I went to do some K' in the meeting? Did I stand up and make a contribution? I was genuinely so angered by your student orgs appalling comments I left to calm down. But I guess you can believe what you want. Honestly there's plenty of stuff to criticize people over no need to make stuff up. How very wadical.
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I think this is what you trendies like to refer to as 'gaslighting'.
 
SpineyNorman said:
No you didn't - you fucked off to the bogs half way through to do some k. We know you did because you went to the bogs half way through then told people you'd gone there to do k.

This is genuinely triggering behaviour for a recovering addict - triggering in the sense that it can prompt a re-lapse, not triggering in the sense that I need an excuse for having fucked off to the bogs to do k so I'll say it was triggering.

You're the one talking out of your arse, I've done similar things in the past so don't try and bullshit me. (though not as cowardly as that - I've never used sexual assault as an excuse - and I only did it because I had to to stop physical withdrawals)

And you fucking love student politics, its all you ever do, so don't come that one either.
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Hang on - can we just slow down? There was more than one person doing ket during/after the meeting. There was only one who later claimed to have found it triggering. Another ex-SWP person who most definitely was doing ket told me that nothing that happened at any point was anywhere near as bad as SWP meetings. Direlectics is probably one of two or maybe three people.

As it goes it was a fucking tense meeting - first like that I'd experienced, where we realised about an hour before the event someone from the AWL was gonna turn up and lecture us on not doing a good job with Hedley, in front of a reasonable number of contacts by our standards. Funnily enough it was about a week later all their shit with GM came out so they haven't piped up since then, but none of us were sure how to deal with it and the student fulltimer was very nervous, being fairly inexperienced and pretty shocked at AWL members screaming at her that she was a sexist the previous day. I think to be honest she was way too defensive and she didn't have to be and that made the situation worse, but a lot of our members went out of their way to invite suggestions on what could/should be done about Hedley and the only answer we got was "assume he's guilty".
 
SpackleFrog said:
Hang on - can we just slow down? There was more than one person doing ket during/after the meeting. There was only one who later claimed to have found it triggering. Another ex-SWP person who most definitely was doing ket told me that nothing that happened at any point was anywhere near as bad as SWP meetings. Direlectics is probably one of two or maybe three people.

As it goes it was a fucking tense meeting - first like that I'd experienced, where we realised about an hour before the event someone from the AWL was gonna turn up and lecture us on not doing a good job with Hedley, in front of a reasonable number of contacts by our standards. Funnily enough it was about a week later all their shit with GM came out so they haven't piped up since then, but none of us were sure how to deal with it and the student fulltimer was very nervous, being fairly inexperienced and pretty shocked at AWL members screaming at her that she was a sexist the previous day. I think to be honest she was way too defensive and she didn't have to be and that made the situation worse, but a lot of our members went out of their way to invite suggestions on what could/should be done about Hedley and the only answer we got was "assume he's guilty".
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Point is I picked up the ket. After the meeting. Unless someone was holding out on me I know for a fact the 2-3 people doing it, were doing it afterwards in & around the Student bar.

Can't speak for others but I didn't find it triggering it just really pissed me off. There were plenty of other suggestions, like maybe not putting him on platforms at Socialism 2013, not having such a weak statement where you'll "still work with Steve". And like fair people are nervous I get it but I don't think that's an excuse to turn into some awful hack-robot.

(On a side note, I am aware now that I might have turned a thread on SWP expulsions and squabbles into a self-parody. Oops.)
 
Direlectics said:
Point is I picked up the ket. After the meeting. Unless someone was holding out on me I know for a fact the 2-3 people doing it, were doing it afterwards in & around the Student bar.

Can't speak for others but I didn't find it triggering it just really pissed me off.
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Wasn't the impression that I got but that's not important - I don't really care who took ket when. I don't understand why anyone would do ket, especially in the middle of a political meeting, but that's not the issue and you get far worse stuff at student meetings anyway. My point was that someone who I spoke too immediately after the meeting to ask them what they thought of it who turned round and said "uh, i'm coming up on ket". They left the meeting about 20 mins before the end and then came back so I assume that's when they took it, but I don't know how long ket takes to work or whatever, I'm not even sure if you snort it or bomb it to be quite honest, I'm not anti-drugs but ket is not something I see the point in. In any case, they didn't look to me to be traumatised and neither then or for weeks later did they say to me they found the meeting difficult. A while later they then popped up on some FB thread saying that it was all terribly triggering, which - and you can say I'm not showing solidarity with people who suffered or whatever - seemed like bullshit to me. Maybe it wasn't, I dunno, but short of not discussing it in the meeting I don't see how we could have avoided "triggering" them, if triggering means "reminding me of bad shit that happened in the SWP".

Direlectics said:
There were plenty of other suggestions, like maybe not putting him on platforms at Socialism 2013, not having such a weak statement where you'll "still work with Steve".
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The statements have been weak because we don't know what the fuck went on and we still don't. SH passed all the police documentation and and I've seen that but we got shit all about the RMT investigation beyond the fact Hedley claimed he had medical evidence to support his accusation she was repeatedly and violently abusive to him and the statement from the RMT saying he had no case to answer. We actually asked people in the meeting if they were suggesting we refuse to work with the RMT leadership (logical - if Hedley is guilty then the RMT has potentially covered up the allegation and have done something far worse than anything the SP has done) and we got no answer, as if it wasn't important about what a militant trade union did or should do. If anything really pissed me off, it's that the real question in the meeting was "how should we view the RMT's decision" and what we ended up talking about was "why didn't the SP condemn Hedley".

They might have been weak statements but you can get sued over that shit you know. At least we put out statements straight away and acknowledged the issue. Neither the SWP or the AWL did that; imo we clearly didn't handle the situation brilliantly but I'm not sure how we could have done a great deal better. Yeah, maybe he shouldn't have spoken at Socialism but that would have meant not inviting Bob Crow, Alex Gordon or anyone else from the RMT.

Direlectics said:
And like fair people are nervous I get it but I don't think that's an excuse to turn into some awful hack-robot.
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Hmmm. How to put this delicately... I didn't say anyone turned into a hack robot.

Direlectics said:
(On a side note, I am aware now that I might have turned a thread on SWP expulsions and squabbles into a self-parody. Oops.)
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You're not as original as you think; that's happened several times on this thread.
 
Direlectics said:
Again with the deflection techniques. Anyways had my say and you're clearly not gonna answer my questions or defend your position properly so w/e. As you were
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What questions? What deflection? Stop stomping on my oppression and dismissing my experience - I find it very triggering. I think we might have to review our safe space policy.

I don't know who the fuck you are but if you're who I think you are you did make a contribution - something about how sex work wouldn't exist under communism or something. Unless you're the other one who just swore a lot and rambled incoherently about Fucking Martin bastard Smith.

You're a liar. I know it, you know it. You don't walk out of a room in a pair, looking perfectly calm, then return 10 minutes later looking guilty and even dopier than usual because you had to cool down cos you found something 'triggering'. The comments from clm on headley were pretty weak, but the idea that you were somehow traumatised by them is utterly ludicrous.
 
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SpineyNorman said:
What questions? What deflection? Stop stomping on my oppression and dismissing my experience - I find it very triggering. I think we might have to review our safe space policy.

I don't know who the fuck you are but if you're who I think you are you did make a contribution - something about how sex work wouldn't exist under communism or something. Unless you're the other one who just swore a lot and rambled incoherently about Fucking Martin bastard Smith.

You're a liar. I know it, you know it. You don't walk out of a room in a pair, looking perfectly calm, then return 10 minutes later looking guilty and even dopier than usual because you had to cool down cos you found something 'triggering'. The comments from clm on headley were pretty weak, but the idea that you were somehow traumatised by them is utterly ludicrous.
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKqD5iTCEAACcnn.jpg
 
SpineyNorman said:
What questions? What deflection? Stop stomping on my oppression and dismissing my experience - I find it very triggering. I think we might have to review our safe space policy.

I don't know who the fuck you are but if you're who I think you are you did make a contribution - something about how sex work wouldn't exist under communism or something. Unless you're the other one who just swore a lot and rambled incoherently about Fucking Martin bastard Smith.

You're a liar. I know it, you know it. You don't walk out of a room in a pair, looking perfectly calm, then return 10 minutes later looking guilty and even dopier than usual because you had to cool down cos you found something 'triggering'. The comments from clm on headley were pretty weak, but the idea that you were somehow traumatised by them is utterly ludicrous.
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Chill Spiney. I think it might be the one you really hate but he's been quite well behaved of late and he isn't the one who made the "triggering" claim so I don't think there's any point getting that annoyed. Could even have been one of the ones who didn't say a word in the meeting.
 
quiquaquo said:
Who needs K when a couple of lines of Callinicos is enough for anyone.
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All the kids are doing it. It goes by several street names - Calli, Stali, Nico's - and has effects very similar to rohypnol. If taken regularly it will have the desired effect of significant memory loss and a delusional sense that all is well with the world.
 
"Get your copy of the Worker and your first hit free,
Trust in the Party, pay your dues to me,
That's the way it goes, that's the name of the game
Lord Acton getting over by slangin' caine"
 
SpineyNorman said:
The comments from clm on headley were pretty weak, but the idea that you were somehow traumatised by them is utter
ly ludicrous.
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This though, this is dead on. The idea that that meeting was traumatising for various revcos types who came because they wanted to see some kind of car crash (cos lets face it, normally they'd say an SP meeting would be booooooring) is a bit rich. And for the record anyone taking a political lead from RH should think real hard about what they're doing.
 
SpackleFrog said:
This though, this is dead on. The idea that that meeting was traumatising for various revcos types who came because they wanted to see some kind of car crash (cos lets face it, normally they'd say an SP meeting would be booooooring) is a bit rich. And for the record anyone taking a political lead from RH should think real hard about what they're doing.
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you really like your echo chambers dont you. people wanted to go because your org fucked up over hedley and it was an appropriate environment to challenge that. no one i know, and especially not me (which is important cuz spnormans comments have been directed towards me) were 'traumatised'. but i guess that's cult mentality for you: twist all events and contrary attitudes so they conform to the 'line'. "all those who criticise have no basis: they're hypocrites. they even took imaginary ket in a meeting." honestly.
 
Direlectics said:
you really like your echo chambers dont you. people wanted to go because your org fucked up over hedley and it was an appropriate environment to challenge that.
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Do you feel like you succeeded?

Direlectics said:
no one i know, and especially not me (which is important cuz spnormans comments have been directed towards me) were 'traumatised'. but i guess that's cult mentality for you: twist all events and contrary attitudes so they conform to the 'line'. "all those who criticise have no basis: they're hypocrites. they even took imaginary ket in a meeting." honestly.
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As I said before, I don't care about the ket, before or after. I've got no problem with you cos you've said straight up you didn't find it triggering or traumatising or whatever. But one person did claim that and it seemed fucking off balance to me; as you said, no one you knew felt that way. This was really the crux of the point.

I've got no interest in any kind of 'line' except where it's useful and I don't think you know enough about my politics (or your own) to chuck accusations of cult mentality about. Mind you though, I still don't know for definite who you are so who knows eh? ;)
 
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