SWP expulsions and squabbles

[butchersapron]

Maybe trotskyist = trotstalinist I'm sure that's what they mean. It's more natural sounding.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Maybe trotskyist = trotstalinist I'm sure that's what they mean. It's more natural sounding.

There's no shortage of sillies who think just that.

But I tell you what, as half these people are on twitter we could just ask them what they mean rather than going back and forth on this forever. Particularly as the question is trivial even by the standards of rows here.

 

[butchersapron]

There's no shortage of sillies who think just that.

But I tell you what, as half these people are on twitter we could just ask them what they mean rather than going back and forth on this forever. Particularly as the question is trivial even by the standards of rows here.

Ok, but let's be clear here first:

1) self-described autonomist avengers.

didn't happen

2) autonomist anarchists

didn't happen.

 

[Red Cat]

When I'm talking about very young children, which I do a lot, I always use the word autonomy or autonomous when I'm talking about their self-direction and their pleasure in their sense of agency because it describes the need to make one's own decisions without denying social and emotional inter-dependence. Independent just doesn't have the same meaning.

Missing the point but who cares..

 

[butchersapron]

When I'm talking about very young children, which I do a lot, I always use the word autonomy or autonomous when I'm talking about their self-direction and their pleasure in their sense of agency because it describes the need to make one's own decisions without denying social and emotional inter-dependence. Independent just doesn't have the same meaning.

Missing the point but who cares..

In the sense used here it means the same thing and they think it means the same as independent.

 

[Red Cat]

In the sense used here it means the same thing and they think it means the same as independent.

Yeh, that's why I said I'm missing the point.

But I wanted to make my own point. Autonomously, like.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I don't really understand this argument so I'm gonna just declare all of you to be wrong. let that be the end of it.

 

[belboid]

it seems distinctly tautologous and pointless tho. Of course they're autonomous, they're anarchists. Why not stick anti-authoritarian in as well?

 

[butchersapron]

it seems distinctly tautologous and pointless tho. Of course they're autonomous, they're anarchists. Why not stick anti-authoritarian in as well?

Why stick autonomous in at all? They did. So what? In what way does it defend the double invented quote - the labour bloke and yours - invention?

 

[butchersapron]

a) belboid - they said "autonomist anarchists"
b) no they didn't
c) it's what they meant
d) did they say it?
e) yes

 

[belboid]

a) belboid - they said "autonomist anarchists"
b) no they didn't
c) it's what they meant
d) did they say it?
e) yes

yes dear, that's exactly what happened. You stick to getting het up over utter trivialities.

 

[butchersapron]

yes dear, that's exactly what happened. You stick to getting het up over utter trivialities.

You literally invented something and claimed that a group of people said it. Of course it's trivial. You invented something and presented it as fact. Does that not bother you when you realised? Make you think twice about how you read and what you post? For others to double check what you or others say? As i said, of course it's trivial.

 

[SpineyNorman]

There's one possibility nobody has considered here - maybe they said it but didn't mean it?

 

[comrade spurski]

Even by urban standards and this threads standards this is a fucking weird row

 

[belboid]

You literally invented something and claimed that a group of people said it. Of course it's trivial. You invented something and presented it as fact. Does that not bother you when you realised? Make you think twice about how you read and what you post? For others to double check what you or others say? As i said, of course it's trivial.

sorry mr pot

 

[butchersapron]

yes dear, that's exactly what happened. You stick to getting het up over utter trivialities.

It's 100% accurate - unless you want to take back anything after c). I can back up everything by direct quotes, the rest i have you only 99% saying it.

 

[butchersapron]

sorry mr pot

Oh god.

 

[butchersapron]

Even by urban standards and this threads standards this is a fucking weird row

Yes prob time to draw it to a close.

Here's James Heartfield's look at Birchalls's book on cliff

Here be Renton replying

Here's a panel by the platypus weirdos on cliff's legacy.

 

[discokermit]

It's 100% accurate - unless you want to take back anything after c). I can back up everything by direct quotes, the rest i have you only 99% saying it.

you win. you're right. no one cares. not even 66.666% of the participants in the argument.
either get deeply personal and offensive or just leave it cos it's going nowhere.

 

[emanymton]

There's one possibility nobody has considered here - maybe they said it but didn't mean it?

Or meant it but didn't say it!

 

[SpineyNorman]

Or meant it but didn't say it!

Or both said it and didn't say it whilst simultaneously neither meaning nor not meaning it.

Multitudinous positionism ftw!

 

[discokermit]

i remember heffernan and her clique turning over the table of the radical anthropology group at marxism once. it was one of many things that turned me against the swp leadership.

 

[SLK]

Even by urban standards and this threads standards this is a fucking weird row

Ridiculous.

 

[killer b]

Ridiculous.

quite. we've had much weirder rows.

 

[SLK]

quite. we've had much weirder rows.

What amazes me is that in being desperate to be seen winning an argument (on a semantic point, rather than anything) how someone who used to have so many people hanging on his every argument is reduced to being desperate to show how he can still "win".

And how few people care now, compared to then.

And he still claims to be involved in politics.

The sad demise.

 

[killer b]

Think you're reading a bit too much into it. Or wanting a fight with butchers. Either way, leave me out of it.

 

[butchersapron]

What amazes me is that in being desperate to be seen winning an argument (on a semantic point, rather than anything) how someone who used to have so many people hanging on his every argument is reduced to being desperate to show how he can still "win".

And how few people care now, compared to then.

And he still claims to be involved in politics.

The sad demise.

Hey stu, still harrassing that girl and pretending to be another poster?

Me still here, still doing politics - you - scared off this or other threads unless they're about Gove because the truth will be told.

 

[SLK]

Hey stu, still harrassing that girl and pretending to be another poster?

Me still here, still doing politics - you - scared off this or other threads unless they're about Gove because the truth will be told.

"still here, still doing politics" Oh dear.
Not sure what you're talking about with the rest of it, but I'm sure you'll explain.

 

[SLK]

Hey stu, still harrassing that girl and pretending to be another poster?

Me still here, still doing politics - you - scared off this or other threads unless they're about Gove because the truth will be told.

I'm on this thread, waiting for the truth to be told. Off you go. You've started with my real name. Go on.

 

[butchersapron]

"still here, still doing politics" Oh dear.
Not sure what you're talking about with the rest of it, but I'm sure you'll explain.

Yeah i am , you're not. You're off with whatever family it is this time.