SWP expulsions and squabbles

[emanymton]

RW should fancy his chances of making the CC some day. What is he, early thirties?

Early to mid yes. I am not sure he has those ambitious though, as the route on to the CC is to work full time for the party first, and he has never done that as far as I know.

I was also thinking about the size issue. As much as we criticise the SWP for inflating it's figures, getting an accurate record of party membership is an impossible task. But considering the latest bout of resignations, and more to come, how close do you think the SWP is to Shrinking below the size of the SP? Thinking back to the demo at the tory conference in Manchester, I would say I saw more people selling the socialist than socialist worker, although I think the SWP had more actual stalls.

They would never admit to being smaller until it is undeniable, but the gap must be getting pretty small.

 

[chilango]

I wouldn't be surprised if they were already smaller prior to the latest wave of resignations.

The SWP might even be down to a three figure membership when the dust settles.

 

[frogwoman]

I think they've been smaller for ages tbh.

 

[chilango]

Anybody care to hazard an educated guess as to the current sizes of the UK Left groups? Nigel Irritable ?

My guess as the size order would be:

SP (around 1000)
SWP (800 ?)
Left Unity (300-400 ?)

And then in no particular order other groups with three figures CPB, AWL, Respect, ISN, SLP perhaps?

I dunno though these days. Everyone is so small that it's too difficult to gauge from any sort of real world presence anymore.

 

[leyton96]

PCS Vice-President Sue Bond has resigned from the SWP according to her Facebook page.

 

[Oisin123]

I think people over here have been reluctant to put the boot into the local SWP about something that isn't their fault and that they had very limited capacity to influence, despite John M's lamentable intervention.

Very civil of you. There are, however, plenty of people around keen to try to put the boot in, but since no one here but JM takes the loyalist position (and that in his capacity as a British SWP member only), it just comes across as an attempt to try and make political capital opportunistically.

 

[butchersapron]

i was gonna post a cathartic 'my experience' post but i've overthunk it and now i'm too tired.

Would love to hear/read this if you change you mind. That goes for anyone else as well - even people like bolshie. But not you Stuart.

 

[articul8]

And then in no particular order other groups with three figures CPB, AWL, Respect, ISN, SLP perhaps?

What about LRC

 

[chilango]

What about LRC

What about them?

 

[butchersapron]

Rabbit worrier speaks:

http://histomatist.blogspot.ie/2013/12/why-i-am-not-resigning-from-swp.html

I'm quite entertained by this piece.

Firstly, he really, truly doesn't seem to have worked out that the SWP is a lot smaller than it claims to be and is in the process of shrinking further. Consequently he doesn't seem to realise that arguments that its "the party or the wilderness" which were dishonest and untrue when made by the old CP are plainly, crassly, idiotic when made on behalf of a group of the SWPs size.

Secondly, the notion that the faction handing over its blog to those leaving the party represents a mass decision to stay and acquiesce is so contorted in its reasoning as to be outright bewildering. It's preparation for an organised split, you clown.

Thirdly, the argument that it necessarily takes "decades" to build a revolutionary group of the puny stature of the SWP implies an acceptance that no significant social rupture will ever occur.

He does not, of course, deal with the core split issues at all.

It is worth quoting from this section of the gen secs report.


As happy as a ipig in shit now that he can demonstrte loyalty. We always said that he' be at home in 30s USSR. This is the prick who was the living breathing embodiment of the 90s/2000s SWP shouty aggressive identity politics. And now shouty aggressive identity politics was wrong all along. As he/they argued.

 

[articul8]

What about them?

They (we) are a left group with a bigger membership than all of the ones you mentioned (after the SP, SWP)

 

[chilango]

They (we) are a left group with a bigger membership than all of the ones you mentioned (after the SP, SWP)

Are you really?

 

[articul8]

really what? Bigger? Left?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Very civil of you. There are, however, plenty of people around keen to try to put the boot in, but since no one here but JM takes the loyalist position (and that in his capacity as a British SWP member only), it just comes across as an attempt to try and make political capital opportunistically.

If there was nobody here taking the loyalist position, the organisation as a whole would not have (a) stayed silent for the last year and (b) opted to remain as the sister organisation of the loyalists post split. Or are you suggesting that it made those decisions because it doesn't want to make poor JM cry (even if those tears would be shed only in his capacity as a British SWP member)?

Those decisions make a certain degree of sense as results of a desire to avoid ripping into each other over something in another country, but without that excuse they are harder to explain in a sympathetic way.

 

[butchersapron]

I've no illusions in what the LRC presently represents,

So we have him having no illusions in the LRC and no illusions in what the LRC can do in the bigger party that he also has no illusions in.

 

[frogwoman]

you didn't really say that did you, oh wait, you did

 

[chilango]

really what? Bigger? Left?

Bigger. Left. A group (in the sense we're talking about here).

 

[articul8]

Bigger. Left. A group (in the sense we're talking about here).

we aren't a Leninist group, that's true enough. (but then nor are Left Unity)

 

[Belushi]

I have no illusions about articul8.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

As I understand it, the LRC's most recent conference had dwindled to a little over 100 in attendance. There are surely more than two other groups who can turn out those numbers.

 

[articul8]

As I understand it, the LRC's most recent conference had dwindled to a little over 100 in attendance. There are surely more than two other groups who can turn out those numbers.

It was affected by having to switch the date at relatively late notice due to the Labour Assembly Against Austerity. The paid up membership is in four figures.

 

[butchersapron]

Just go away.

 

[chilango]

we aren't a Leninist group, that's true enough. (but then nor are Left Unity)

Do you really count as a distinct, cohesive group though? Would you stick together if for some reason you were out of the LP (as the SP and Awl have)?

 

[articul8]

Do you really count as a distinct, cohesive group though? Would you stick together if for some reason you were out of the LP (as the SP and Awl have)?

Interesting question - I'm not sure i know the answer to that.

 

[butchersapron]

Interesting question - I'm not sure i know the answer to that.

Will this do?

In all honesty the LRC is very weak and poorly organised.It keeps a flag flying but it doesn't have anything like the resources of level of organisation that something like Progress has.

 

[articul8]

yes, well that's true. I hope we are finally staring to get our act together on the organisational front, but we don't have Saisbury millions that's true enough.

 

[chilango]

I don't know much about the LRC. but if the iron-willed Bolsheviks of the trot left struggle to survive as sustainable, living entities the chances of the far more "floppy" LRC doing so must be slim to none.

 

[J Ed]

yes, well that's true. I hope we are finally staring to get our act together on the organisational front, but we don't have Saisbury millions that's true enough.

It just isn't your party http://www.leftfutures.org/2013/11/...-to-pretend-its-not-just-progress-youth-wing/

Sheffield Labour Students is supposed to be the 'radical' wing of the Labour student movement and if that's the case then the future isn't very bright for the Labour Party tbh

 

[butchersapron]

yes, well that's true. I hope we are finally staring to get our act together on the organisational front, but we don't have Saisbury millions that's true enough.

YOU MEAN NOTHING

 

[SpackleFrog]

yes, well that's true. I hope we are finally staring to get our act together on the organisational front, but we don't have Saisbury millions that's true enough.

I remember going to an RMT-organised conference in 2009 to discuss alternatives to Labour. A woman from the LRC got up to speak and said "Labour is my party. I can't leave it. But I absolutely understand why you want to build something new and I wish you the best of luck". Is this the standard response from LRC members?