SWP expulsions and squabbles

[oskarsdrum]

There will be opportunities for revolutionaries to intervene.

So watch out y'all.

Seriously Bolshie what is the way back from here?? What kind of comparable trot lazarus suggests that might be possible. Here's my vision of the future anyway:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_(United_States)

 

[DotCommunist]

I will never again use the word “socialist” to describe the middle aged trade unionist from my former branch who went round the edges of conference, confronting the youngest delegate at conference, a woman in her gap year before university who had never met him before, with the hostile greeting, “Martin is innocent”.]

that is messed up

 

[frogwoman]

Listen to this mangled shite - and i know mangled shite :

...and anyone who says different are thrice-cursed factionalist anti-party elements worse than a dog

 

[bolshiebhoy]

This is religion not politics. The outsidesr vs the insiders, us vs them, stick with me kid - you have nothing left on which to make this deal. You bluffed and you lost. You'll be back in the same CLP as newman soon. A series of great choices.

Dream on chap, is that your best shot? You define the problem in items of in and out and then complain when I use the same paradigm. You're a clever fella but often the emperor has no clothes, not that your acolytes on here will notice boss.

 

[J Ed]

im just glad the SWP aren't in power, could you imagine callinicos and tony cliff as the dear and great leaders

Sounds like the basis for a really entertaining dystopian novel tbh

 

[Nigel Irritable]

[quote="bolshiebhoy]nothing was ever enough for the hard core of the faction. As the middle ground have thankfully realised at the last moment. The trajectory of the permanent opposition was always out, no concession short of remaking the SWP as the ISO or god forbid the ISN would have been enough to stop them.[/quote]

That's not true, and you know it. Or more precisely, an element of that became true as the whole mess went on, but it was not true at the beginning at all.

Do you actually remember what the "Facebook four" wanted? What the original banned faction wanted? What the faction that was set up at the start of the year wanted? It was all very moderate. Shockingly so in retrospect. Indeed, in retrospect I doubt if there was anything there that you personally now disagree with. It was the expulsions, the bans, the determination to defend Delta, the determination to stand over the DC report,the determination to shut people up about something that they were never going to shut up about that drove the conflict. Not the alleged "logic of factionalism".

Even from the point of view of a "party first" cynic, the current leadership are criminally incompetent.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

im just glad the SWP aren't in power, could you imagine callinicos and tony cliff as the dear and great leaders

Is Rees or Smith the executed uncle?

 

[Delroy Booth]

I don't think people actually realised how deeply warped and rotten to the core the SWP was. I didn't. They put me off when I first encounter them as a potentially recruitable student but I had no idea they were capable of some of the shit that's in the previous 500 pages.

 

[DotCommunist]

Sounds like the basis for a really entertaining dystopian novel tbh

The Dear Proffesor is watching you, with Delta in the Beria role

 

[butchersapron]

Dream on chap, is that your best shot? You define the problem in items of in and out and then complain when I use the same paradigm. You're a clever fella but often the emperor has no clothes, not that your acolytes on here will notice boss.

My best shot? No, there is no best shot. I think your personal degeneration was always your political one. You - and the smith loyalists - did what you always do - you force it onto the ground of in/out swp tradition/autonomist (a thousand past binaries). It's basic, it's effective. Until it's not anymore.

You are a rat. You've been trained to be a rat. The rat training organisation is under attack. Act like a rat.

 

[J Ed]

The Dear Proffesor is watching you, with Delta in the Beria role

Imagine someone trying to sell you a paper in an enclosed space - forever

 

[frogwoman]

when is the tile mosaic going to be erected?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Is Rees or Smith the executed uncle?

Bambery

 

[frogwoman]

All those tony cliff pamphlets and articles by callinicos, stowed away in a shaded corner The party will never forgive these thrice-cursed acts

 

[Pickman's model]

All those tony cliff pamphlets and articles by callinicos, stowed away in a shaded corner The party will never forgive these thrice-cursed acts

tony cliff pamphlets are never stowed away in a shaded corner. nor are callinicos articles. the ones which aren't used for lighting fires or lining litter trays can be put under chairs or tables to prevent them rocking. they can be made into paper planes. and they often moulder under beds until they're suitable deteriorated and can be composted.

 

[chilango]

A whole five years ago, on these very boards, I noted the ongoing collapse of the SWP and speculated on the form the end would take:

It seems clear that the SWP is in its final thrashings around and if it survives it will be as a much more marginal group on the left.Will the rump turn into a deluded cult like the WRP, or hang on to a vestige of its tradition and try to reflect a little as to its future role like the SP, or simply dissolve and move on a la the IMG?

It seems to have chosen the first option, with handfuls of refugees picking a more dignified demise.

I can't believe some still even ask whether there's a way back. There isn't. There hasn't been for half a fucking decade.

 

[DotCommunist]

im just glad the SWP aren't in power, could you imagine callinicos and tony cliff as the dear and great leaders

tbf members of the parties of power, and in particular members of the tory party have been diddling for years. They've the clout, nous and experience to keep it hushed until its so old a wrongdoing the perpetrators and victims are near enough dead.

 

[Pickman's model]

A whole five years ago, on these very boards, I noted the ongoing collapse of the SWP and speculated on the form the end would take:



It seems to have chosen the first option, with handfuls of refugees picking a more dignified demise.

I can't believe some still even ask whether there's a way back. There isn't. There hasn't been for half a fucking decade.

but political cripples need to know there is such a thing. even if there isn't. it's a bit like never-never land for trots, where they never need grow up.

 

[butchersapron]

Btw:

SWP conference discusses the way forward for the left

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Btw:

I hadn't even noticed that particular touch of narcissism!

 

[chilango]

When will SW go fortnightly/monthly?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

When will SW go fortnightly/monthly?

Not soon. It's entirely possible to produce a weekly (CPGB/WW) or even a daily (WRP) prettying much indefinitely with a much smaller membership. You just can't sell it.

 

[Pickman's model]

When will SW go fortnightly/monthly?

i'm looking forward to it becoming an annual - but hopefully not a hardy perennial

 

[Pickman's model]

Not soon. It's entirely possible to produce a weekly (CPGB/WW) or even a daily (WRP) prettying much indefinitely with a much smaller membership. You just can't sell it.

it's not like they can sell it too easily now

 

[butchersapron]

Slightly long winded and more importantly completely wrong because nothing was ever enough for the hard core of the faction. As the middle ground have thankfully realised at the last moment. The trajectory of the permanent opposition was always out, no concession short of remaking the SWP as the ISO or god forbid the ISN would have been enough to stop them.

To you, this couldn't have been sorted by acting decently?

 

[chilango]

Not soon. It's entirely possible to produce a weekly (CPGB/WW) or even a daily (WRP) prettying much indefinitely with a much smaller membership. You just can't sell it.

Whats the printrun on WW and Newsline? Cant be many now. Print on demand almost surely?

 

[Pickman's model]

Whats the printrun on WW and Newsline? Cant be many now. Print on demand almost surely?

they used to sell outside highbury & islington (newsline) and i've recently seen them selling in dalston.

 

[chilango]

...also didnt the SWP flog their printshop?
do any left groups own the kit to mass print a paper or is all contracted out and subject to market forces?

 

[Belushi]

I bought a copy of Newsline outside Brixton tube a couple of months ago.

 

[Pickman's model]

I bought a copy of Newsline outside Brixton tube a couple of months ago.

((((belushi))))