Or Julia Bonk? Phwor
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I am despratly trying to think of something witty that the initials MP could stand for in her case, and falling miserably. Someone else have a go.
leyton96
NGO's selling privilege checking solutions
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Surely that's a Moot Point...
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
BTW, does anyone know what happened at the Rebuilding the Party Faction meeting today?
love detective
there's no love too small
They laughed when you said you were going to become a comedian, they're not laughing now
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
looks like the opposition are forming a new group openly in anticipation of conference...
https://www.facebook.com/events/569882773092704/
https://www.facebook.com/events/569882773092704/
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
That link doesn't work for me. Could you c&p the details?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
- East London RtP: Revolutionary Organisation in the 21st Century
- Export · Share · Report
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Tuesday 
7:00pm until 9:00pm
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Overcast 43°F / 34°F- As the aggregates wind down, we thought it would be a good idea to keep people engaged by having a few political meetings prior to conference. This has been tried to much fruition in Central London and Manchester, and this Tuesday we want to try and do the same in East London. All comrades are welcome, but this meeting is particularly catered to comrades in Newham, Tower Hamlets, Waltham Forest, Hackney and Dalston. See you then. (P.S. Invite comrades I've missed out or don't know).
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Oh no, not again!
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
I asked dave renton outright about his knighted swappie and he replied:
"They are a lone individual, and a good person – I think it’s a case of unseeing rather than the deliberate flouting of rules to assist a mate
The greater scandal has been the widespread ignoring of a supposedly fixed rule against taking more than 60% facility time – a rule disregarded by several of the leadership’s most noisy supporters"
"They are a lone individual, and a good person – I think it’s a case of unseeing rather than the deliberate flouting of rules to assist a mate
The greater scandal has been the widespread ignoring of a supposedly fixed rule against taking more than 60% facility time – a rule disregarded by several of the leadership’s most noisy supporters"
The only person I can imagine as a likely candidate retired at the end of 2012...
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
I would be inclined to give Renton the benefit of the doubt on this one.... But I can't help wondering what kind of revolutionary would accept an OBE. Can you imagine Paul Foot OBE for services to journalism?? Also, the "unseeing" is only possible in a context in which major supporters of the leadership (and mates of Delta) were flouting the 60% rule.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
He's actually lost the plot completely now hasn't he? It's a case of throw any and all shit I can on the way out. Not very edifying to be honest. Also slightly ironic that he would raise the incompatibility of union office holding with membership of the party. A good deal more than slightly in fact.
benedict
Well-Known Member
You've proved yourself an expert on the edifying in this thread.
Aside from the point scoring, what's your stance on the substance? Should management, union full-timers, and Order of the British Empire holders be in or out?
Das Uberdog
remembers the alamo
the ISN identity politics brats are unedifying. you can't accuse Renton and the hangers on of trying to wreck anything with a straight face, when they've put up with so much flak for going through the insanely rigged internal processes i presume you think they should. when you first started posting on this thread you garnered yourself some grudging respect from most people here - seems like more than anything else now you just enjoy being the thread pariah. you're certainly not taking it seriously any rate.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
keep your head well buried bolshie, there's a good little idiot.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Oh dear. I'm very fond of DR the person and have defended him against all the prolier than thou shit he's had thrown his way. But the point is that if the oppo want to play this holier than thou game as a substitute for saying what their actual POLITICS are then they will burn themselves too. its a stupid game.
i'm not that astute bolshie', but aren't the 'politics' of opposition to corrupt practices in high socialist places pretty obvious?
The swp was a party with a principled commitment to replacing capitalism's class based privilege and inequality, but these past couple of years has exposed some of the Party hierarch's (and not a few of their creatures in the upper level cadre) as being involved in some well dodgy maneuvering to secure political advantage for the permanent faction that has come to dominate. The distaste generated by the central facts of the sex assault case (and its handling) have given rise to an entirely legitimate anger and led to a questioning of the structures that have enabled such a disaster.
Numbers of those on the outside, who remain sympathetic to swp aims and objectives see that any former integrity has largely vanished. What appears instead is a corroded dysfunctional and self serving apparatus which refuses to honestly face up to its grave failings.
Many others on the outside, who were no doubt considered as 'periphery', have already turned their faces against becoming involved in a contaminated organisation.
What's to understand?
The swp was a party with a principled commitment to replacing capitalism's class based privilege and inequality, but these past couple of years has exposed some of the Party hierarch's (and not a few of their creatures in the upper level cadre) as being involved in some well dodgy maneuvering to secure political advantage for the permanent faction that has come to dominate. The distaste generated by the central facts of the sex assault case (and its handling) have given rise to an entirely legitimate anger and led to a questioning of the structures that have enabled such a disaster.
Numbers of those on the outside, who remain sympathetic to swp aims and objectives see that any former integrity has largely vanished. What appears instead is a corroded dysfunctional and self serving apparatus which refuses to honestly face up to its grave failings.
Many others on the outside, who were no doubt considered as 'periphery', have already turned their faces against becoming involved in a contaminated organisation.
What's to understand?
Oisin123
So Much for Subtlety
To the tune of Old MacDonald, sung preferably with an index finger in each ear and your eyes closed.
It's all about the politics
The POLITICS don't you know.
It's not about a rape at all
It's the POLITICS don't you know.
With avoidance here and expulsions there
Here a D, there a C, everywhere integrity
It's all about the politics
The POLITICS don't you know.
It's all about the politics
The POLITICS don't you know.
It's not about a rape at all
It's the POLITICS don't you know.
With avoidance here and expulsions there
Here a D, there a C, everywhere integrity
It's all about the politics
The POLITICS don't you know.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
If that's true, it may explain why he's so keen to point out the unannounced and untheorised shift in practice. After all, if he got a shoeing years ago, for doing something that's now normalised, he'd certainly notice the shift.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I see Renton replied to bolshiebhoy's comment here on Facebook. He says that he actually wasn't having a pop at the SWP, but was genuinely wondering about where lines should be drawn.
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Interesting post by Kieran Crowe on Facebook with reference to this:
"Martin used to have face-to-face meetings with most of the leftwing trade union leaders. He was like a sort of parallel bureaucrat. He would often not bother talking to SWP members in PCS until after meeting Serwotka. In the case of RMT, he found it easier to deal directly with Bob Crow than any SWP member in the union itself at all. Where any of this fits into 'rank and file' organising 'from below', I don't know, but his perspective was very much that the party was his stage army that he needed to look like a 'player' when talking to the other Big Men of the movement. That's kind of the basis on which all SWP strategy was premised after 2009 - grandstand marches and rallies designed to make it look like he was an effective leader in the movement, with the spotlight very much on himself (UAF also got used for this after 2010). He overreached himself with the storming of ACAS: he thought Woodley would be impressed until the exact bonkersness of it became apparent."
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Bollox. and it's cause I really, really don't believe that I won't be replying on FB where people get more excitable and it's harder to remain friendly with people. You don't publish an article about 'integrity' in a hostile magazine run by the sects with an article by seymour bookending yours and warble on about how so many loyalists are in breach of the rule about percentage of facility time and then claim your article isn't an attack on the SWP or an intervention in the faction fight. Complete and utter bollox. the article starts by referencing the main motion at conference for Christ sakes and it's use of the word integrity. And his 'even the SWP' phrase is perhaps the most telling, he's embarrassed to be a member and he is quite deliberately suggesting that the integrity of those involved in this mess is questionable. I used to think he just thought that was true of Smith. Now it's clear he includes the prof, CK and probably most of the original dc apart of course from any who are now in the faction. This moral grandstanding of the opposition gets more shrill and the chest beating all the louder the closer we get to conference and them maybe just maybe having to say something about what their alternative platform for leadership would look like. Their divisions meant they can't so the "we have all the decent people" shite has to substitute. It's just bonkers, totally apolitical and hugely insulting to people who have devoted their adult lives to revolutionary politics.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
anyone with any decency would be. i'm now embarrassed that i was a member twenty years ago
it's not that questionable, i reckon it's pretty certain the integrity of those people is shot to pieces. you can add yourself to the list as well.
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Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Has it ever occurred to you that events may occur or issues may arise where the chief dividing line is not whether some aspect of the SWPs particular take on "revolutionary politics" is correct? Or do you really, honestly, believe in the Maoist notion that political line determines everything and underlies everything?
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