SWP expulsions and squabbles

[Nigel Irritable]

It gets worse (if that's possible). The uncensored Delta case narrative emerges and rings horribly true:

The main additions seem to be:

A) some paragraphs dealing with the treatment of one of W's supporters in the UAF office and her sacking. This seems to be a second claim of workplace victimisation, distinct from that of X.

B) names of individual pro-Deltaists are kept in.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

if Viv S is associated with that document then it is true, surprised they went to SU with it though, still it does show in even more gruesome detail the disgusting bullying rape encouraging behaviour within that organisation.

 

[treelover]

Just read it, appalling, what a bunch of creeps, personally I feel vindicated by my many many years of hostility to them.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

if Viv S is associated with that document then it is true, surprised they went to SU with it though, still it does show in even more gruesome detail the disgusting bullying rape encouraging behaviour within that organisation.

As I understand it, the writers did not go to SU, judging by the comments section. It seems that some other SWP member(s) with access to the uncensored original sent it on.

It's somewhat bizarre what the CC decided to cut out of the version the put in IB2. The stuff about the UAF office, for instance, is awful if true, but it's hardly worse than the stuff they did print. And the claim that there was a secret pro-Delta faction were printed elsewhere in the bulletin, despite, if I recall correctly, getting cut from this piece.

On that last point, by the way, it seems that the opposition are trying to turn the leadership's own central tactic back on them, trying to open a hard/soft split amongst the loyalists.

 

[treelover]

X also faced inappropriate questioning by some members of the DC. CC member Amy L asked if she had misconstrued M’s approaches as he was a friendly man who often bought her coffee, while DC elected member Maxine B asked her about her drinking habits.

Not surprised there, at one time it looked like she was gonna convert!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Well if nothing else I feel vindicated for the loathing I've always had towards Weyman.

 

[belboid]

apparently the faction (or some members thereof at least) wanted to propose an alternative CC slate - that still had Callinicos & Kimber on it!

The majority were not keen and voted to defer a decision to a full faction meeting.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

apparently the faction (or some members thereof at least) wanted to propose an alternative CC slate - that still had Callinicos & Kimber on it!

The majority were not keen and voted to defer a decision to a full faction meeting.

Sounds like some oppositionists are trying to be too clever by half.

 

[leyton96]

Well if nothing else I feel vindicated for the loathing I've always had towards Weyman.

Me too!

Looking through the list of hardline Delta-istas I recognise a number of people who I always knew had the spine of a jelly fish and the morals of a vulture.

Weyman B (inveterate liar), Amy L (a human vortex of noise and bombast), Judith O, Helen S (incompetent), Doug M, Maxine B, Rhetta M, Mark K, Roddy S, Paul H (posh git) and Rahul P (a bully pure and simple, he'd be off with his tail between his legs at the merest hint of spine in his opponent).

Roddy S must be one of the most toxic and hateful individuals I've ever met and I've worked in kitchens and the finance industry!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Helen S? I'm amazed she is still around tbh, I would have thought she would have trundled off years ago

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Helen S? I'm amazed she is still around tbh, I would have thought she would have trundled off years ago

She was the archetypal shouty young SWP full timer a decade ago. It was like performance art.

Her direct equivalent in Ireland was, bizarrely, made Socialist Worker editor before disappearing off into the grant funded sector and academia. He resurfaced to publish a particularly embarrassing op ed in the Irish Times about the misplaced radicalism of his youth and his mature belief in the power of working with the private sector to achieve progressive aims.

 

[Once red]

How appalling the treatment of this woman was.
As for the characters involved, I don't know many of them. Weyman: shouty, OTT, that's about it, they must be after my time.
Never a fan of Jo C and the fact they put her in charge of students after this beggars belief and explains why there are none left!
I don't believe that Alex C and Charlie K are particularly to blame in it all- I mean, they've been pretty woeful but I think the problem may be more the layer of people who are hardliners/careerist SWPers.
The last ten years or so have been so crap for the SWP, with all the deaths, the Respect debacle (always a dreadful mistake from the outset) etc.

 

[dominion]

I see the authors of the document are unhappy with its being published on SU:

I am very unhappy that you made no effort to contact myself or the other authors to see if we would be happy for you to post it. I am very unhappy that you have posted the article .I wrote this article for an internal debate within my party, not for this site to post.

I strongly request that you remove the article and allow myself and my co authors to continue our discussions within our party. If we had wanted to post the article we would have used a blog that we chose ourselves, we decided that it was better to email our comrades with the article. I have no idea how you got the article, but you clearly have no real interest in what I am my co authors are trying to achievewithin the SWP.

Please remove this article

Simon.

The cats out the bag and being distributed across the web as we speak.

That they wanted to keep this secret bothers me. Fact is the SWP is not a safe place for women. Period.

 

[Karmickameleon]

I see the authors of the document are unhappy with its being published on SU....
The cats out the bag and being distributed across the web as we speak.
That they wanted to keep this secret bothers me. Fact is the SWP is not a safe place for women. Period.

Simon F's "complaint" is quite logical. If you were in his position, wouldn't you strongly protest about the publication of his IB piece? Well, he would, wouldn't he? as someone else famously said.

While the SWP leadership have treated (at least) two women comrades appalling and sought to cover this up and, at the same time, protect Delta, this doesn't necessarily entail that the party is not a safe place for women. This is of course the Andy Newman line, but would he say the same if this awful business had occurred in the Labour Party? I prefer Tony Collins' take on the question:
http://socialistunity.com/swp-party...ative-comrade-delta-rape-case/#comment-669863

 

[discokermit]

Helen S (incompetent),

Helen S? I'm amazed she is still around tbh, I would have thought she would have trundled off years ago

She was the archetypal shouty young SWP full timer a decade ago. It was like performance art.

is that the same helen s who was west mids organiser in the early nineties?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

is that the same helen s who was west mids organiser in the early nineties?

I don't think so. Too young.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

That they wanted to keep this secret bothers me.

The people you are criticising here are the people who stood by the complainant and put their own jobs and friendships at risk in so doing. If you had any idea what you are talking about here, you would realise that the person you are "bothered" about wrote this piece (with others) in the full knowledge that it would be put online. He now has to ask for it to be taken down, knowing that it won't be, so that SWP loyalists can't claim he leaked it.

I doubt if I agree politically with all of the views of the SWP oppositionists, but they include people who have played an admirable role in standing up for their friend. And for basic decency.

 

[emanymton]

Simon F's "complaint" is quite logical. If you were in his position, wouldn't you strongly protest about the publication of his IB piece? Well, he would, wouldn't he? as someone else famously said.

While the SWP leadership have treated (at least) two women comrades appalling and sought to cover this up and, at the same time, protect Delta, this doesn't necessarily entail that the party is not a safe place for women. This is of course the Andy Newman line, but would he say the same if this awful business had occurred in the Labour Party? I prefer Tony Collins' take on the question:
http://socialistunity.com/swp-party...ative-comrade-delta-rape-case/#comment-669863

I think the question, is not so much is the SWP a safe place for women, it clearly isn't but nor should we expect it to be a completely safe place. The question is whether or not it is a more dangerous place than society as a whole, I would say it probably less dangerous. But it is no where near as safe as it should be given its politics. And while we cannot expect it to be a completely safe safe, we should expect it to deal with those cases that do occur far better than this.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

is that the same helen s who was west mids organiser in the early nineties?

No this is the shouty ginger haired lass who was prominanat in anti war and globalise resistance in the early 2000s

 

[Karmickameleon]

The people you are criticising here are the people who stood by the complainant and put their own jobs and friendships at risk in so doing.

Exactly. This point is worth repeating. If anyone has played an entirely admirable role in this whole sorry business, it is those comrades who have stood by W come what may. For what it's worth, I take my hat off to them.

 

[Karmickameleon]

The question is whether or not it is a more dangerous place than society as a whole, I would say it probably less dangerous. But it is no where near as safe as it should be given its politics. And while we cannot expect it to be a completely safe safe, we should expect it to deal with those cases that do occur far better than this.

Good point. Given everything that has happened, the SWP certainly needs to demonstrate that it is a safe place for women. This means not just mouthing off about the SWP's "proud record of fighting for women's rights bla bla bla", but -for starters - apologising publicly to the two (or more?) women concerned. Of course, this is well nigh impossible without a change of leadership...

 

[Fedayn]

Chris Coltrane ‏@chris_coltrane10m
Big up to Sheffield Uni's occupying students, who turned away the SWP on the grounds that the occupation is a safe space for women.

Retweeted by Owen Jones

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[J Ed]

Chris Coltrane ‏@chris_coltrane10m
Big up to Sheffield Uni's occupying students, who turned away the SWP on the grounds that the occupation is a safe space for women.

Retweeted by Owen Jones

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I wonder if this is just a policy thing cos there must be a grand total of 1 SWP student left... I can't imagine they turned many away.

Btw this is quite good if you want to follow the actions at sheffield uni today http://forgetoday.com/staff-strikes-2013/

 

[Once red]

Funny as it is that the occupiers turned the SWP away, I do find all this 'safe space for women' stuff a bit kind of patronising/insulting- to women, I mean. I sometimes think it is one step away from suggesting that women need to be in a little tea shop somewhere away from those naughty menfolk. Or worse, that women need 'good men' to protect them. Or like 'Some people think that little girls should be seen and not heard- and have safe spaces made for them' Hmmmm....

 

[butchersapron]

Funny as it is that the occupiers turned the SWP away, I do find all this 'safe space for women' stuff a bit kind of patronising/insulting- to women, I mean. I sometimes think it is one step away from suggesting that women need to be in a little tea shop somewhere away from those naughty menfolk. Or worse, that women need 'good men' to protect them. Or like 'Some people think that little girls should be seen and not heard- and have safe spaces made for them' Hmmmm....

Who says it was blokes stopping them coming in? It's not a gender segregation issue in the slightest.

 

[belboid]

I wonder if this is just a policy thing cos there must be a grand total of 1 SWP student left... I can't imagine they turned many away.

the original tweet did say 'A Socialist Worker Party member...'

her next one was then "A female activist told him: "this is a safe space, we support women, we do not welcome rape apology"

 

[Once red]

Ah fair enough then. They're going to get that everywhere- party's over.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The language used is a bit peculiar, unless they were trying to imply that this particular SWP student poses a safety threat. The basic point behind it, that they don't want to work with SWP loyalists, is at this point pretty much par for the course. They are getting that in a lot of contexts.

 

[belboid]

The language used is a bit peculiar, unless they were trying to imply that this particular SWP student poses a safety threat.

most likely its just poorly precised to fit into a 140 character (inc hashtag) tweet

 

[Nigel Irritable]

most likely its just poorly precised to fit into a 140 character (inc hashtag) tweet

I suspect not. The "safe space" terminology is quite often thrown at SWP types on twitter.