SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
OK. sorry.
Well to be fair to you, you are probably with the majority of the working class in preferring reform of the system to revolution. Only problem is, reformism comparatively has a worse track record than Stalinism.
andysays
Love and solidarity
I'm absolutely no fan of the SWP, in regard to this issue or generally, and agree that their leaders appear to behave as if they are leading a cult, but explusion/suspension is pretty much the only way the SWP can deal with anyone found to have behaved in this way.
The problem here is that the processes which were supposed to allow them to get get to the truth of the matter and apply that penalty were apparantly subverted/corrupted to protect one particular senior member and, if the most recent example is correct (I have no reason to suggest that it isn't) nothing has improved since then and young women who are preyed upon by older male members are still dismissed by the party establishment.
As a TU rep, do you ever find yourself in the position where a woman who has been a victim of violence does not want to you to the police? Do you then override her wishes and report it anyway? Have you read none of the discussion about this running all through the thread?
What other ways of dealing with a culprit are really open to anyone other than the state criminal justice system, if the victim decides, for totally understandable reasons, that she doesn't want their involvement?
I have read the arguments of this thread on and off since it started and am well aware of the problems about some women not wanting to go the police. So far I have not been faced with the scenario that you outline. All have gone to the police of their own volition. For obvious reasons I cannot go into any details.
My main priority is always ensuring the womans safety through referrals to appropriate organisations and ensuring that their employment is not threatened. TU reps are not lawyers, I can only make suggestions and do the best I can.
Never said it was straightforward.
My main priority is always ensuring the womans safety through referrals to appropriate organisations and ensuring that their employment is not threatened. TU reps are not lawyers, I can only make suggestions and do the best I can.
Never said it was straightforward.
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
exactly - what is the worst that can happen to an SWP rapist? they get thrown out of the party? That'll ruin their life for sure
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Having just read the above - if true, if asks serious questions about all other decisions not to proceed. Internally and externally.
In the mean time the latest faction news has been published by the Weekly Worker:
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/online-only/swp-rebuilding-the-party-faction-update-1
http://www.cpgb.org.uk/home/weekly-worker/online-only/swp-rebuilding-the-party-faction-update-1
marty21
One on one? You're crazy.
tl:dr
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
I think I know who that was (the assailant, not the victim - he features on the SWP's entry in a certain well known 4 chan inspired spoof wikipedia site). There's a poster on here who knows quite a lot about the case if it is the same one.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It says a lot at it's, ok another one. I appreciate the time DK posted it and that but, even this lack of response is telling.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
All this chitter from the loyalists and the rebels. What I can't understand why anyone with an ounce of morality or principle is still a member of this filthy organisation.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
holding out til conference?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The reasons are enumerated above - they are not good enough for me. They might hold some people for a while.
Before Theory
Active Member
Maybe you're thinking of me SN ? I posted a lot about Jake Smith, an organiser and national office worker who raped one young woman and attempted to rape another, despite there being witnesses to the attempted rape he was only suspended from membership of the SWP for two years. I am really sad to read the details of a further attack, but the timelines are out, and this one is much more recent. I left the SWP after the nauseating Conference in 2011 where Martin Smith got a standing ovation for being accused of rape, and I've had as little to do with it as I possibly can in the intervening years.
Sad to see though that little has changed, victims of sexual assault who speak out are still vilified in the name of "The Party" while their attackers are protected and sometimes even promoted.
Karmickameleon
Too long in exile
Why don't you repost or provide links to your previous (very disturbing) posts? As the debate rages on in the SWP, they would be of interest to those still inside and still fighting (hopelessly?) for a democratisation of the party and a public apology to all the women concerned.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
The Ross Speer piece lays out the duplicitous, underhand and dishonest way in which the party leadership has dealt with the opposition, distorting their arguments , lying about their actions, and those of the CC, putting words into their mouths in order to create straw men to demolish.
And yet, there seems no recognition that the way in which aC and CK treat the opposition is not unusual, but in fact how the swp operates.
And yet, there seems no recognition that the way in which aC and CK treat the opposition is not unusual, but in fact how the swp operates.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
The unmitigated shit the opposition are coming out with this weekend on their plans for the future of the party, it's structures, it's publications and above all it's politics proves beyond all doubt they have already left in their minds. The problem is there are months of this nonsense left before they actually do it.
benedict
Well-Known Member
With the most recent report about the handling of fresh rape allegations, it's clear that Callinicos and Kimber have the structures running like a finely-tuned engine, eh Bolshie? If this is how the centre is still operating, is the opposition wrong to continue struggling to change the party from within?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
So it's okay to lie and make things up, as long as the other side is a bit shit?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Lies are in the eye of the beholder belboid and they're not just a bit shit they represent a complete break. The tactics of the opposition are beneath contempt. One small example. Molyneux is transphobic according to them coz his latest isj article dared to say there is a biological base to sex. You can't argue with people like that you just have to laugh at them.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Or you could pay attention to what they actually say - which is that molyneuxs argument is wrong as I he was talking about sex whereas the people he was criticising were talking about gender - a distinction that has long been accepted within the SWP. So Molyneux actually is putting forth a transphobic argument, even tho (or maybe because) the whole existence of trans people never even crossed his mind.
Oh and the fact that callinicos and kimber are lying about the events of the last year is clear as day to anyone who has read the swp's own accounts of them. You know it just as well as I do.
Oh and the fact that callinicos and kimber are lying about the events of the last year is clear as day to anyone who has read the swp's own accounts of them. You know it just as well as I do.
andysays
Love and solidarity
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Or belboid they could pay attention to what Molyneux says and not answer their straw man who doesn't exist. He doesn't say sexuality isn't socially determined. he explicitly says it is but he also corrects their Foucoult inspired nonsense that sex is only social conditioning. Their treatment of him is of a piece with the general Abbi Bakan inspired approach of pigeon holing Cliffites as ageing sexists whose marxist arguments against feminism can be safely be disregarded and if not then distorted.
The record of the last few years isn't as flattering to the opposition as they like to think.
The record of the last few years isn't as flattering to the opposition as they like to think.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The last few years are even less flattering to the SWP tho, aren't they?
And Molyneux was 'answering' a claim that had never been made. He, either deliberately or through ignorance, completely missed the fact that no one claimed sex was socially determined. It's gender that is. Molyneux explicitly conflates the two, even tho he (and you) must know better.
And Molyneux was 'answering' a claim that had never been made. He, either deliberately or through ignorance, completely missed the fact that no one claimed sex was socially determined. It's gender that is. Molyneux explicitly conflates the two, even tho he (and you) must know better.
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
It wasn't you I was thinking of mate (I was thinking of another poster who had been the victim's partner after the rape) but yeah that's the one I was thinking of. Sounds like I was wrong though and it's even worse than I thought. Fuck's sake
FFS. Way to demonstrate his ignorance of the entire question.
(In crocodiles, sex is socially determined, to the extent that burying the eggs somewhere below 30C makes them all hatch female. But do they in fact cry?)
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
is that what we generally mean by 'social determination' tho? It obviously isn't genetic determination, and is environmental. hmmm...
Either way, it doesn't lend support to Molyneux.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Where are they coming out with this "unmitigated shit"? And what are they actually saying!
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