emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Do you have a link to the blog Nigel?
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
discokermit
Well-Known Member
right. didn't think that sounded credible. but since the whip round to fund his m.a., i wouldn't rule anything out.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
The Irish SWP are destructive sectarians, but they aren't suicidal. The point is to benefit as an organisation from fucking over other socialists, not to get destroyed in the press.
The Prof:
"On the off-chance that anyone is interested in the truth about the SWP crisis, Dave Renton has made some entirely false factual allegations about my role. I don't intend to debate this on Facebook, but no doubt we will have a chance to discuss his claims (and maybe even some politics) within the SWP in the next couple of months."
"On the off-chance that anyone is interested in the truth about the SWP crisis, Dave Renton has made some entirely false factual allegations about my role. I don't intend to debate this on Facebook, but no doubt we will have a chance to discuss his claims (and maybe even some politics) within the SWP in the next couple of months."
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The Rees-Kimber piece is truly appalling.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No, but it might as well have been. The same MO: dishonest re-telling of events that he's personally involved in, leaving out huge chunks of relevant info whilst putting fake emphasis on minor or irrelevant points as distracting tactic - followed by tendentious waffle that always begin in Seattle and ends up with the party he's in being right at every single point or turn since then and all setbacks the result of either internal retreats from the importance of class by everyone who disagrees or external maliciousness (allied, of course, with an abandonment of class). This is the leadership MO across the party and its diaspora - and it didn't happen by accident.
A re-booted SWP, one which has dispensed with the Prof and the significant layer of unquestioning hard line hacks who support his (and their) particular brand of 'bolshevism without a conscience' would be a desirable outcome now.
Renton's eye opening revelations perhaps makes such a prospect slightly more likely - but will it be sufficient? Unlikely imv.
Conference will be fascinating that's for sure. i'd love a ticket for a ring side seat.
Renton's eye opening revelations perhaps makes such a prospect slightly more likely - but will it be sufficient? Unlikely imv.
Conference will be fascinating that's for sure. i'd love a ticket for a ring side seat.
Last edited:
Oisin123
So Much for Subtlety
That's what this forum is for.
I hope our friends will keep us up to date. Like the BBC text service for football games.
leyton96
NGO's selling privilege checking solutions
On the issue of soup kitchens and the Golden Dawn, the Greek sister party of the Socialist Party, Xekinima, runs a soup kitchen in Athens along with some Anarchists.
This is linked to an over arching strategy to found anti-fascist committees in working class areas to counter-act the influence of Golden Dawn.
So in this particular area of Athens part of their activity is running a soup kitchen that is open to everyone, not just Greeks that Golden Dawn happen to like.
The difference with what is being argued above by some is that running the soup kitchen is an adjunct to a broader political program.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
You really don't give a bollix how much damage this all causes do you? Long as you get entertained.That's what this forum is for.
I hope our friends will keep us up to date. Like the BBC text service for football games.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
To who? And now we get the other external bit of the MO. Let her rip bolshie, let her rip. All political a minute ago, now real people are getting hurt. (He notices in oct 2013)
Damage to whom? Not the alleged rape victims.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
This is classic BB and classic SWP - what they did now becomes the attack. Healy called it dialectics.
a)Look how much you have damaged the party, the only party that counts, don't you feel ashamed of yourself?
b)Why have you attacked the party, the only party that counts.
C) ?
I never thought that you would reek like this BB. You lot make me fucking sick.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Tote lols
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
butchers you're too clever by half to have just totally misunderstand my point by mistake. My objection was to the tone of the chap who as far as I know is still a member of an IST organisation. Nobody on either side of the faction fight sees it as the entertainment he clearly does. There are of course people who want to see the SWP die (including a majority on this thread in all probability) but I find it odd for someone in a sister organisation to so clearly take great delight in watching people tear each other apart. Would the people he expects to text him updates from the conference be tickled to hear him describe their efforts as great sport? That point I was making makes no assumptions about whose fault the mess is by the way so you can shove your Healy jibes up your hole you sanctimonious bore.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Ah the old you're too clever etc bit as exposed earlier.
And your suggestion was clearly that there was some wider class-soul struggle here, that the class was rending itself apart - rather than a private battle in a toy shop.
And your suggestion was clearly that there was some wider class-soul struggle here, that the class was rending itself apart - rather than a private battle in a toy shop.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
To someone who still claims the toy shop matters you dolt. I know you don't give a fuck....all these pages later.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I don't think the toy-shop matters.
(abandoning class)
(abandoning class)
Is Callinicos Mr Magorium?
benedict
Well-Known Member
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I wanted to zoom in on exactly this and made a mental note to do so. There is so much horror in just that line.
Oisin123
So Much for Subtlety
I would welcome it if CC took a hammering over this and I will cheer on every voice - like Renton's - that exposes how shameful was their behaviour from the moment the rape accusation came to their attention. That's not taking delight in watching people tear each other apart, it's adopting the only position that can restore hope for the future of the SWP.
BK Double Stack
Reconstructed Marcyite
rumor has it that renton's piece is gonna be taken down cuz Prof is going to the Disputes Committee about it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Who needs to go to the state when you have your own.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Which is what cut, paste and republish was designed for
I have a friend who is due to be elected onto the SWP CC.
And then this summary on facebook appears...
"Your National Secretary has a totally inappropriate relationship with a teenage member of the party. He gets her drunk by buying her drinks while not drinking himself. They have sex. She is utterly distraught because she has not consented and did not want sex though, like many rape victims, it takes her a while to put a name to what happened. She asks for help from the CC of her party - they simply tell people that it is just a relationship gone wrong and there is nothing to worry about. Your conference then gives the defendant 10 mins to justify and defend himself, following which he receives a standing ovation and cheers. The young woman is not allowed to put her case to conference at all. She is simply refused. Imagine - you believe the leader of the party you belong to has raped you, then you hear that, in discussing the matter, he has received a standing ovation from your supposed comrades: I mean, really, pause for a minute to imagine what that must feel like. Then, members are expelled simply for planning to raise the issue at conference. Members of the CC lose their position for expressing private opposition to what is happening. Meanwhile something like 400 people - half the active membership - leave the SWP. Then *another* woman complains of sexual harassment. She has witnesses and documents. But the CC simply refuse to hear her case. Indeed, they quietly remove her from her job. Finally they are *forced* to accede - but they insist that the investigation is not allowed to find the accused guilty in his absence (something that would not happen anywhere else). The accused nevertheless - having insisting on remaining in post while hundreds leave the SWP in disgust - now chooses this precise moment to resign, with no explanation whatsoever to the membership. He is indeed found to 'have a case to answer'. Still there is no explanation forthcoming as to why the CC feel it has been worth shedding so many members and allowing its reputation to be squandered, all in defense of a man who, it appears, probably was in the habit at least of sexually harassing his subordinates even if you prefer to believe he didn't actually commit a rape.
A person who doesn't see anything wrong with this picture and believes that the problem is the opposition is either a complete moral wretch or just phenomenally gullible - too gullible, surely, to be involved in Marxist politics. The only possible excuse for not supporting the opposition is that you don't know the basic facts. Those who do know the facts frankly have no excuse at all."
Bolshie, you know I care, but you must also be aware this is a more bankrupt party than the one that let you go many years ago. You don't owe them anything (sorry if you think I'm being patronising, but I don't understand your more recent defence, given your previous complaints).
And personally. How do I deal with being a friend to this person? Rhetorical.
And then this summary on facebook appears...
"Your National Secretary has a totally inappropriate relationship with a teenage member of the party. He gets her drunk by buying her drinks while not drinking himself. They have sex. She is utterly distraught because she has not consented and did not want sex though, like many rape victims, it takes her a while to put a name to what happened. She asks for help from the CC of her party - they simply tell people that it is just a relationship gone wrong and there is nothing to worry about. Your conference then gives the defendant 10 mins to justify and defend himself, following which he receives a standing ovation and cheers. The young woman is not allowed to put her case to conference at all. She is simply refused. Imagine - you believe the leader of the party you belong to has raped you, then you hear that, in discussing the matter, he has received a standing ovation from your supposed comrades: I mean, really, pause for a minute to imagine what that must feel like. Then, members are expelled simply for planning to raise the issue at conference. Members of the CC lose their position for expressing private opposition to what is happening. Meanwhile something like 400 people - half the active membership - leave the SWP. Then *another* woman complains of sexual harassment. She has witnesses and documents. But the CC simply refuse to hear her case. Indeed, they quietly remove her from her job. Finally they are *forced* to accede - but they insist that the investigation is not allowed to find the accused guilty in his absence (something that would not happen anywhere else). The accused nevertheless - having insisting on remaining in post while hundreds leave the SWP in disgust - now chooses this precise moment to resign, with no explanation whatsoever to the membership. He is indeed found to 'have a case to answer'. Still there is no explanation forthcoming as to why the CC feel it has been worth shedding so many members and allowing its reputation to be squandered, all in defense of a man who, it appears, probably was in the habit at least of sexually harassing his subordinates even if you prefer to believe he didn't actually commit a rape.
A person who doesn't see anything wrong with this picture and believes that the problem is the opposition is either a complete moral wretch or just phenomenally gullible - too gullible, surely, to be involved in Marxist politics. The only possible excuse for not supporting the opposition is that you don't know the basic facts. Those who do know the facts frankly have no excuse at all."
Bolshie, you know I care, but you must also be aware this is a more bankrupt party than the one that let you go many years ago. You don't owe them anything (sorry if you think I'm being patronising, but I don't understand your more recent defence, given your previous complaints).
And personally. How do I deal with being a friend to this person? Rhetorical.
Similar threads
