chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
You forgot the last 4 letter word
Which one?
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
Which one?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Trot
love detective
there's no love too small
tell that to the present day 19th/20th century left
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I just did.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
You forgot the last 4 letter word
The jibe works better when it isn't spelled out.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Sure. And you won't catch me arguing that a socialist transformation of society in the advanced capitalist world in the 21st Century will look anything like the Russian revolution. Or the Spanish revolution.
There are good arguments for most of the ways the Socialist Party organises... and there are also bad historical reenactment society style arguments. I have no time for the latter (which isn't to say that I've never made such an argument - no stupidity is too small or too silly to have avoided my use at some point or other).
Last edited:
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I will admit that I'd be highly amused if Workers Power or Solfed started tryng to extort money from shopkeepers.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I "don't mind it" in practice either. I just don't think that every single thing that could be described as "workin class self-organisation", still less things that may well in practice turn out to be more service provision than self-organisation, necessarily constitutes a good use of the scarce resources of small activist groups.
love detective
there's no love too small
yeah in theory you don't seem to mind it in practice
out of interest though, if not practical activity in the sphere of progressive working class organisation, what would you say constitutes a good use of the scarce resources of small activist groups (who see the value of progressive self organised working class activity)?
out of interest though, if not practical activity in the sphere of progressive working class organisation, what would you say constitutes a good use of the scarce resources of small activist groups (who see the value of progressive self organised working class activity)?
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
How much did they raise then?
That seems to be a pure admission of the total futility of your political posture
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
I have comrades who were active in food not bombs in Stoke newington for years, they seem to have been able to combine their political activity with a regular soup kitchen/ free food to those who need it. That you are unable to understand the difference between mutual aid and charity speaks volumes about Trotskyist concepts of 'workers power'.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Perhaps you'd like to give an account of the no doubt massive steps forward in working class self-organisation and political action that have grown from Food not Bombs activity around the world?
(Once again, and resisting the almost overwhelming urge to laugh at food not bombs being presented as an example of useful political activity: There's nothing bad about handing out free food. It's just not a viable political strategy in most circumstances).
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
I haven't had an email from the campaign for a new workers party for a while, how's that getting on?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
The issue isn't whether "progressive working class organisation" is desirable. Presumably we all agree on that. It's what forms of organisation, around what issues, with what resources, and with what aims.
So for instance, left wing community activists in Ireland recently have been spending a lot of time trying to organise local groups to push mass non-payment of various regressive new austerity taxes*. They could equally well have been handing out free sandwiches. One of these things was, given our circumstances, a better idea than the other. It should be said though that just because something doesn't represent a good use of resources for a small socialist group, that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing that somebody else tries to do it.
(*With some success against the first such tax, but suffering a serious defeat against the second, which makes things a lot more difficult now that the third is in the post)
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Can I take it that's your full defence of food not bombs? Or do you have more to add?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
That doesn't even make sense. Pretty much like the rest of your laughable comments.
I'm sure we all have friends who regularly take part in charity activities, so what? Food Not Bombs are very clearly NOT mutual aid, its some nice wet hippies doing something for nothing for other people.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
I have an awful sense of déjà vu about this particular topic, as we have gone over this before, with the socialist party stalwarts doggedly refusing to give an inch to any chance that socialists should make their activity practical rather than purely propagandist. They seem determined to prove they are the true socialist party by being even more abstract and abstentionist than the spgb are reputed to be.
My friend who has been active in food not bombs have combined this with being a rmt rep, Nepalese solidarity work, refugee support, anti bedroom tax activism, etc.
But carry on selling your papers and touting your petitions, you'll get there in the end.
My friend who has been active in food not bombs have combined this with being a rmt rep, Nepalese solidarity work, refugee support, anti bedroom tax activism, etc.
But carry on selling your papers and touting your petitions, you'll get there in the end.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Still not answered my question, how much did the cpgb really raise
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
No, idea, but if you are naive enough to just believe everything the CPGB print that's your look out. I dont.
You know Food Not Bombs explicitly describe themselves as 'activism meets charity' dont you? They make no pretence about it being 'mutual aid,' so why do you?
You know Food Not Bombs explicitly describe themselves as 'activism meets charity' dont you? They make no pretence about it being 'mutual aid,' so why do you?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Another group who thinks it might be a strategy worth pursuing is golden dawn...
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Anyway the food bank discussion thread is here should anyone wish to revisit it.http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/foodbanks.309736/
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
Wouldn't similar stuff about specific conditions apply there as it does with the BPP? (Admittedly not quite as far removed but still not really anything like what we've got in the UK right now).
Personally I agree with Nigel that it wouldn't be a good strategy for the SP, certainly not in my area anyway. Apart from anything else we wouldn't have the resources to sustain it for any length of time and since people come to depend on food banks I think it would be irresponsible to do it if you couldn't guarantee you'd be able to continue with it at least for the foreseeable future.
I do think though people in the SP and other such groups who are also members of bigger organisations that are supposed to be representing the people who find themselves in the situation where they need food banks and have the resources - in material and feet on the ground terms - should be arguing for this kind of strategy and getting actively involved in it where it does happen.
There's a lot more to say about how I think this should be done - including community involvement in identifying need and distribution - but I don't have time/can't be arsed to type it out right now.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
be interested in hearing your thoughts on that SpineyNorman
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Absolutely.
My point is that the BPP program was not a one off. That other groups feel it's a worthwhile tactic in other circumstances and situations.
Do we have the right circs in the UK right now?
I dunno. But even if we don't, they're getting closer.
Just something to think about.
I'm not gonna do anything as moronic as demanding the SP does this, or condemn them if they don't.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
At the risk of bringing the conversation back on topic, Callinicos and Kimber have a lengthy piece defending the CC's approach in the new ISJ. Dave Renton has a reply up on his blog already, dealing only with the handling of the allegations rather than the wider issues discussed in the ISJ piece. In it he goes after Callinicos personally.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
And to move things back off topic again, the SWP here in Ireland have apparently decided to stand Brid Smith, a councillor in Ballyfermot, in the Dublin constituency in the forthcoming European elections. Which means that they are standing a no hoper candidate against a sitting Socialist Party MEP.
What makes it even better is their reason for doing so. They know that Smith can't win, but they want to raise her profile for the next general election. When they plan to stand her against a sitting independent left wing TD, Joan Collins.
Two almost unbelievable sectarian stunts for the price of one.
What makes it even better is their reason for doing so. They know that Smith can't win, but they want to raise her profile for the next general election. When they plan to stand her against a sitting independent left wing TD, Joan Collins.
Two almost unbelievable sectarian stunts for the price of one.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
The Martin Smith part is a joke in dubious taste. And quite a lot of tendentious colour has been added. But the basic story is true enough.
Similar threads
