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SWP expulsions and squabbles

A timely re-reading:

The full book is here btw

For many of the groups, the maintenance of “Leninist” forms of organisation are a kind of play acting. It does not help in their activity in the working class, because there usually is none, but its elaborate system of committees does fill their time nicely and affords them an opportunity to abuse one another with names from the rogues gallery of Bolshevik history. P44 More Years of the Locust
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Another quite debilitating complaint is the virus that infects people with the Collected Works of Lenin on their bookshelves. This particular malady manifests itself in the patient’s inability to observe any present day situation without bending it into an analogy from the history of Bolshevism.
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bolshiebhoy said:
Total caricature. One of the best things about Trotsky's History of the Russian Revolution for example, that paragon of Leninist history is the number of times the class teaches the party rather than the other way round as happens in stalinist history. Cliff of all modern leninists of note was at pains to emphasise that the relationship is one of dialogue not a one way transmission belt of 'truth' to the class from the leninists. He based his practice in this country on a rejection of that Gerry Healy crap and repeatedly (some would say too often) emphasised the new ideas and experience of young militant workers over tired old party men and women. The working class invented soviets and then Lenin wrote state and revolution , not the other way around. But without state and revolution the second october revolution may never have happened. Similarily it wasn't until Hungarian workers actually started toppling the statues of stalin that people in such huge numbers could break from stalinism in the west. But the fact that a heavyhitter like cliff had written his book on state cap earlier and bothered to gather a group of people who bought the argument made that break stronger and more fruitful.
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give an example of how the class can teach the party. what route can information take, from the class to the cc?

if you do this, i will show you the point where the loyalist line followers (teachers, mainly, some privately educated) scream in your face and start excluding you from information and activity, the point where the fulltimer screams in your face, along with the loyalists, the point where your speakers slips are ignored at conference/council and the point where you're out on your arse and people you thought were friends and comrades now won't look you in the eye.

the swp is purely centralist, any democratic fig leaves they have, have been revealed during the recent events for the utter sham that they are. the gap between the words and the deeds in the swp, from sexism, democracy, socialism from below, the trade union bureaucracy, etc. is absolutely massive.
 
treelover said:
used to think Rosen was a bit of a toady, but it seems he only supported SWP, etc on an issue by issue basis

Having said that, did he ever not support a SWP campaign?
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Rosen was never a toady, the sarcastic abuse he levelled at those complaining about delta back at the start of the year was a figment of everyone's imagination.
His vocal opposition now has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting himself from being associated by the guardian readers who commission his radio and tv shows with rape denying thugs
 
Guardian Diary has another bite:

...after all those efforts to save him, it is now appears that Delta, who held many senior positions over many years, has resigned his membership. A questionable finale, perhaps. For in two weeks' time he was scheduled to appear before the disputes committee to face yet more allegations of sexual misconduct. That will probably go ahead, but as an ex-member he won't have to be there and can't be sanctioned...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/jul/29/adieu-comrade-delta-swp-sex-allegations
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For the first time since all this began I sat next to a SWP loyalist at a union meeting today who when a couple of people started "teasing" her about "comrade delta" retorted that it "allegedly happened a couple of years ago why bring it up now". No sign of any concern for the victim in all this. The party must always come first with these people.

In case anyone hasn't seen this the arguments continue:

http://revolutionarysocialism.tumblr.com/post/56820778035/socialists-have-to-stand-firm-against-sexism

The SWP ain't worth shit if you'll excuse my language. I remain appalled.
 
barney_pig said:
Rosen was never a toady, the sarcastic abuse he levelled at those complaining about delta back at the start of the year was a figment of everyone's imagination.
His vocal opposition now has nothing whatsoever to do with protecting himself from being associated by the guardian readers who commission his radio and tv shows with rape denying thugs
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Yes, his sneering style of commentary on Seymour's blog always surprised me. It seemed very much at odds with the Rosen I grew up reading via his children's books and poetry. It's a bit of a hard one for me to fathom, to be honest. Still, on Lenin's Tomb (and I can't mention that without referring to what a stupid name that is...) he presented as quite an unpleasant character.
 
benedict said:
Yes, his sneering style of commentary on Seymour's blog always surprised me. It seemed very much at odds with the Rosen I grew up reading via his children's books and poetry. It's a bit of a hard one for me to fathom, to be honest. Still, on Lenin's Tomb (and I can't mention that without referring to what a stupid name that is...) he presented as quite an unpleasant character.
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Basically he's one of these types who think their undoubted mastery of one field (children's literature) makes them an expert on all other vital questions in life and woe betide any lesser mortal who questions them. I don't know much about writing books and if I were to have a go at Rosen for his writing and he told me to bog off that'd probably be fair enough.
I'll never forget his staunch defense of the left liberal slanders towards the Lindsey strikers. I got told off for defending the Lindsey strike (despite the fact that I'd been on the picket line and actually met the strikers) on a blog by Rosen by way of a little homely that began "When I was teaching a school of multi-racial children in Hackney..." and went down hill from there.

Politically, the man's a berk, quite frankly.
 
benedict said:
Yes, his sneering style of commentary on Seymour's blog always surprised me. It seemed very much at odds with the Rosen I grew up reading via his children's books and poetry. It's a bit of a hard one for me to fathom, to be honest. Still, on Lenin's Tomb (and I can't mention that without referring to what a stupid name that is...) he presented as quite an unpleasant character.
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Michael Rosen's position regarding the swp since the Delta affair exploded seems to have shifted significantly. His initial reactions (or, more specifically, the ones that i read at the time, mainly on Len's Tomb) pointed to a quite deplorable acceptance of the CC's duplicitous lies. He also (hypocritically) suggested that only swp member's ought to be passing comment on the unfolding situation. Worse of all, considering his normal opinionatedness, he refused to clarify his personal position properly, preferring to remain ambiguously vague on the most serious matter to face the swp in its history.

That said, the shift of view is very welcome, even if a little late? There will be many 'out there' whose automatic reaction to criticisms of swp politics and practice will normally have been conditioned by an understanding that skullduggery and sectarian shitmongering have often played a damaging role in the socialist project. Perhaps Michael Rosen thought that such factors were influencing matters when the Delta rape issue became public?
 
interesting that his break came after the delta resignation. that was quite a blow to the loyalists, i'm sure. hence the ultra rabid loyalists outbursts we've seen lately.
 
leyton96 said:
Basically he's one of these types who think their undoubted mastery of one field (children's literature) makes them an expert on all other vital questions in life and woe betide any lesser mortal who questions them. I don't know much about writing books and if I were to have a go at Rosen for his writing and he told me to bog off that'd probably be fair enough.
I'll never forget his staunch defense of the left liberal slanders towards the Lindsey strikers. I got told off for defending the Lindsey strike (despite the fact that I'd been on the picket line and actually met the strikers) on a blog by Rosen by way of a little homely that began "When I was teaching a school of multi-racial children in Hackney..." and went down hill from there.

Politically, the man's a berk, quite frankly.
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I think the SWP's stance on the Lindsey strike was really a marker of the party's degeneration. Plenty of awful episodes in its history of course but that moment really highlighted the mess they were in politically. In retrospect, seems like a marker of things to come.
 
benedict said:
I think the SWP's stance on the Lindsey strike was really a marker of the party's degeneration. Plenty of awful episodes in its history of course but that moment really highlighted the mess they were in politically. In retrospect, seems like a marker of things to come.
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Ah but hang on, One of the best things about Trotsky's History of the Russian Revolution for example, that paragon of Leninist history is the number of times the class teaches the party rather than the other way round as happens in stalinist history
 
discokermit said:
interesting that his break came after the delta resignation. that was quite a blow to the loyalists, i'm sure. hence the ultra rabid loyalists outbursts we've seen lately.
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Yes, and it may have cost him a few friendships.

Disagreements within the swp are commonly 'resolved' by personal distancing and invoking the Coventry treatment.

A bit like the Plymouth Brethren.
 
The swp have just put this on youtube (real)

mjxraq.png
 
Mr Rosen was certainly off my May Day card list for 2014.

But now, i might resume listening to 'Word of Mouth'.
 
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