SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Why? Tell us why? If you have something to say that need talking about then say it. Right now.
andysays
Love and solidarity
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Hang on. Isn't it up to the DC what cases they hear? A lot of non sequitors in Newman's piece.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Maybe it's all not true?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Maybe hey. That description of the constitutional process doesn't ring true is my point. but obviously if my labour colleague says so it must be.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So maybe if a small thing is wrong the wider thing is made up!!!
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Ooh is that my ploy, hadn't realised how clever I was being there. No just my gut reaction to this latest 'revelation'. if someone contradicts me and makes a convincing case I'm prepared to change my mind as always.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
so, ignoring su, you reckon the cc calling a national committee meeting with four days notice to discuss a blog makes any sense?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Is that all it's about disco? The opposition wanted a debate, it's got one in the party's publications and branches. From a distance it looks like that's not enough and they want to organise as a permanent external faction before they've even left.
There are some significant inaccuracies in the SU article but the core, that there is a second case which some ppl (not necessarily cc) are trying to kick into the long grass, is correct. We await the news from tomorrow's NC to see what the cc do and whether anyone significant has changed sides (possible. Likely? I really don't know). There are rumours galore about what may happen. As for Marxism, lordy lordy!
discokermit
Well-Known Member
you think that's what birchall is doing? really?
First time poster long time reader- as such you can probably guess I am somewhat of an interested party in these proceedings, though that interest is a mingled mixture of nostalgia, fondness, horror and seriousness.
A couple of observations about the blog and one 'get real' comment to that bolshieboy dude above.
(1) I have yet to find a typo in it. Make of that what you will.
(2) It has named people.
(3) There are a few debates that are invaluable. The piece on the changes to the working class and the balance of class forces is part of a debate the SWP has long since put off.
(4) As for the comment above re permanent external factions- pull the other one. Either the SWP gets used to the possibilities of the internet or stamping it out will tear it assunder. It can not seriously expect people to be grateful for scraps from the table of acceptable debate (a few letters, an isj article or review piece every now and again), when you can just publish a piece on a blog.
I saw the 6min response some mook had to relay to a baying crowd before the March conference. Fuck. That. Shit. The poor guy was terrible, in part because he had so much to say, and as such he was eviscerated. If the blog is a space for the oppos to work out their views, it is something the SWP should benefit from. What are the loyalists afraid of?
As we both know, in the mind of the c.20th trot, the specter of an alternative 'central organ', which Bolshieboy seems to think that tumblr site is, means one thing- a split. This closeted view is decidenly un-marxist in the sense that ignores the changes to forms of information exchange, and the changes to social relations these create, that the development of productive forces of information exchange capitalis has produced. I am far from being an internet uptopian here, in many ways the present this has created is a dystopia, but people are going to write. Get over it.
Does this mean an end to unity in action? Only if you ever though unity in action meant blind adherence.
A couple of observations about the blog and one 'get real' comment to that bolshieboy dude above.
(1) I have yet to find a typo in it. Make of that what you will.
(2) It has named people.
(3) There are a few debates that are invaluable. The piece on the changes to the working class and the balance of class forces is part of a debate the SWP has long since put off.
(4) As for the comment above re permanent external factions- pull the other one. Either the SWP gets used to the possibilities of the internet or stamping it out will tear it assunder. It can not seriously expect people to be grateful for scraps from the table of acceptable debate (a few letters, an isj article or review piece every now and again), when you can just publish a piece on a blog.
I saw the 6min response some mook had to relay to a baying crowd before the March conference. Fuck. That. Shit. The poor guy was terrible, in part because he had so much to say, and as such he was eviscerated. If the blog is a space for the oppos to work out their views, it is something the SWP should benefit from. What are the loyalists afraid of?
As we both know, in the mind of the c.20th trot, the specter of an alternative 'central organ', which Bolshieboy seems to think that tumblr site is, means one thing- a split. This closeted view is decidenly un-marxist in the sense that ignores the changes to forms of information exchange, and the changes to social relations these create, that the development of productive forces of information exchange capitalis has produced. I am far from being an internet uptopian here, in many ways the present this has created is a dystopia, but people are going to write. Get over it.
Does this mean an end to unity in action? Only if you ever though unity in action meant blind adherence.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Fucking hell joined oct. 2006 first post today, that's some impressive lurking!
KeeperofDragons
Crazy dragon lady
I think it deserves an award
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
If s/he stayed in the swp that time without saying anything...all good.
Has anyone from here been to any of the Marxism meetings this year? What is the atmosphere like, are the Sparts strutting their stuff, is the place like a ghost town?
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
It's next weekend, but will be the largest and best ever!
As usual.
To be fair, I don't think anyone is actually saying that this time.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
I know of two people going who weren't there last year. But no I don't expect to be turned away at the door for any of the meetings I want to go to and I suspect getting a beer will be easier yes.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Stack on the dem cen debate
http://www.scribd.com/doc/152158848/Pat-Stack-The-evolution-of-democratic-centralism-in-the-SWP
Some sharp barbs in this. Will make many people stop and think.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/152158848/Pat-Stack-The-evolution-of-democratic-centralism-in-the-SWP
Some sharp barbs in this. Will make many people stop and think.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
He seems to think he is as he spends quite some time in his blog entry defending its very existance and answering those who will say why didn't you wait to reply in the Review or IB. Stack seems to have fudged it by not actually posting to the blog as such. Be foolish to think there won't be people in the party see this stuff as beyond the pale.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
What strikes me is how internalised and divorced from anything outside the party this is. Nobody or anything outside of the party's own gurus are cited, not even old VI gets more than a passing nod, let alone any suggestion that the world has moved on
imposs1904
Thread Killa'
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
In fairness to Stack isn't your last point exactly his?
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
Think he says during the Rees/German heyday that brought us the Respect debacle.
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