SWP expulsions and squabbles

[brogdale]

The bard of South Norwood is on form....

GAME OF TROTS’

Brittanica AD 43
The once mighty emperor Calinnicos is dying – his people deserting him disgusted at the long hidden debauchery of his generals.
To the west is the land of the TAAFFES who’s Emperor has forged an alliance with CROWNAN THE BARBARIAN to attack Germania.
Howver the warrior empress LYNDSAY of GERMANIA is betrothed to the renegade general REES who though no warrior is beguiling the people with fine wines and sweetmeats.
To the south King Andrew of BURGINDY seeks to unite the tribes enlisting the VENRABLE LOACH to talk of the old ways of the warriors of AD 45 led by THE INCLEMENT ATTLEE
To the north is the kingdom of Galloway the Inscrutable who seeks alliance with the Moors to be installed as the Great Moghul…….
read on…………….
http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/06/27/game-of-trots/

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

 

[discokermit]

why is anyone still calling him delta?

because everytime you use it, it refers not just to him but what he's done. he'll always be delta now. martin smith was a nob and a bit of a joke, but delta, well, we all know what delta is.

 

[Tom A]

because everytime you use it, it refers not just to him but what he's done. he'll always be delta now. martin smith was a nob and a bit of a joke, but delta, well, we all know what delta is.

One of my friends got quite upset when I explained on Facebook Smith and Delta were one and the same, thought that he had been 'outed' (since he was only an "alleged" rapist and he thought people were handing out "mob justice" to him), I ended out trawling though old articles to explain the truth.

 

[JHE]

One of my friends got quite upset when I explained on Facebook Smith and Delta were one and the same, thought that he had been 'outed' (since he was only an "alleged" rapist and he thought people were handing out "mob justice" to him), I ended out trawling though old articles to explain the truth.

He is only an alleged rapist.

Many critics of the SWP, inside and outside that 'party', have pointed out the utter inadequacy of the internal investigations of the allegations against Smith. This point cuts both ways. People should not be satisfied with Smith's exoneration. Equally, without proper investigation and due process we should not talk as if he had been convicted.

 

[Tom A]

He is only an alleged rapist.

Many critics of the SWP, inside and outside that 'party', have pointed out the utter inadequacy of the internal investigations of the allegations against Smith. This point cuts both ways. People should not be satisfied with Smith's exoneration. Equally, without proper investigation and due process we should not talk as if he had been convicted.

I can go with that.

 

[Pickman's model]

I can go with that.

good

 

[comrade spurski]

Just because the information is out there, we shouldn't make it easier for anyone to find it.

I know we all know this already but I think it's a mentality we need to stick with in other situations and encourage others to do the same.

I agree which is why when I was told I didn't look it for it and didn't make any reference to where I heard about it...I only mentioned it cos it seems a crap thing to have made public

 

[muscovyduck]

I agree which is why when I was told I didn't look it for it and didn't make any reference to where I heard about it...I only mentioned it cos it seems a crap thing to have made public

Yeah I know, I was expanding on your point rather than arguing with it

 

[comrade spurski]

after I re read my original post I thought it sounded a bit nic picky or smart arsed so I thought I should better explain myself...didn't think you were picking me up or anything...am just horrified that her name came out like it's anyones business

 

[SpineyNorman]

It most be possible, for someone more at one with the ways of the internet than a thick fucker like me, to figure out where her name was first mentioned in relation to this case (although even if I was better at the internet I'd not be able to do it anyway cos I don't know her name and intend on keeping it that way). Then release all kinds of nasty personal shit about whoever did it.

 

[Das Uberdog]

He is only an alleged rapist.

Many critics of the SWP, inside and outside that 'party', have pointed out the utter inadequacy of the internal investigations of the allegations against Smith. This point cuts both ways. People should not be satisfied with Smith's exoneration. Equally, without proper investigation and due process we should not talk as if he had been convicted.

he's at the very least guilty of gross misconduct - he essentially admitted this to the entirety of conference with his 'i ain't no angel' speech the year he stepped down from an official position on the CC. i agree with not treating him as guilty of the most severe charges but there's absolutely no doubt he isn't fit to hold any kind of position of authority within the upper echelons of the party, which makes the whitewashed 'disciplinary' hearing all the more farcical.

 

[J Ed]

http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/33754/Egypts Revolutionary Socialists call for general strike until the fall of the regime

Dozens of martyrs and injured have fallen at the hands of the Brotherhood.

Who could ever had predicted that leftists would be murdered after an Islamist takeover? No mention of how the Revolutionary Socialists called upon people to vote for Morsi?

This is a failed regime, headed by a lying president who even breaks promises to his Salafist allies.

Does anyone understand this? Are the SWP seriously criticising the Muslim Brotherhood for not acquiescing to the demands of Al-Nour?

 

[Tom A]

http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/33754/Egypts Revolutionary Socialists call for general strike until the fall of the regime



Who could ever had predicted that leftists would be murdered after an Islamist takeover? No mention of how the Revolutionary Socialists called upon people to vote for Morsi?



Does anyone understand this? Are the SWP seriously criticising the Muslim Brotherhood for not acquiescing to the demands of Al-Nour?

The standard defence from the then-swppies I know was that "yes, the Muslim Brotherhood is reactionary, but they are the most significant resistance to Murbarak and the old regime, and we need to support the socialists within the Muslim Brotherhood rank-and-file".

Which sounds not too dissimilar to "vote Labour without illusions", when you come to think about it.

 

[butchersapron]

Their argument was that Morsi and the MB would be weak and susceptible to street pressure once in executive power, nothing to do with them saying the MBs represented the most significant opposition to the old regime really (and everyone would know that this is not true). They pointed out that the MB's were in the process of doing a deal with the remnants of the old regime (this was true) and that they were trying to use the kudos of the incomplete revolution to root their own policies in the state and it's institutions (they actually ended up ensuring the autonomy of all the state institutions opposed to them)

 

[SpineyNorman]

The standard defence from the then-swppies I know was that "yes, the Muslim Brotherhood is reactionary, but they are the most significant resistance to Murbarak and the old regime, and we need to support the socialists within the Muslim Brotherhood rank-and-file".

Which sounds not too dissimilar to "vote Labour without illusions", when you come to think about it.

The 'vote labour without illusions' stuff is nowhere near as bad as that tbf and there are at least some relatively sane arguments that can be made in favour of it.

 

[Tom A]

The 'vote labour without illusions' stuff is nowhere near as bad as that tbf and there are at least some relatively sane arguments that can be made in favour of it.

I wasn't saying the two arguments were equal, but the logic is similar. Anyway the rise of the Muslim Brotherhood is at least a step sideways rather than forward.

E2A: But for now that doesn't seem to have derailed the revolution, since as we speak Tahrir Square is full of protesters again wanting Morsi to go, only this time Al-Jazeera Arabic is ignoring them.

 

[barney_pig]

El Greco strikes again
http://www.socialistreview.org.uk/article.php?articlenumber=12358
A quick glance reveals democracy is a less than ideal quality within The Party

 

[belboid]

and Birchall bites back

http://revolutionarysocialism.tumblr.com/post/54588200394/ian-birchall-replies-to-his-critics

 

[articul8]

As Alex says “with leadership comes responsibility”. And while I am willing to accept that I, like all party members, share responsibility, the CC must take particular responsibility for recent events. Their stewardship has been singularly unsuccessful.

That is a giant FUCK YOU to Callinicos.

 

[butchersapron]

And while I am willing to accept that I, like all party members, share responsibility

...and a lesson for you?

 

[articul8]

he hasn't drawn the conclusion he needs to leave the SWP, he's drawn the conclusion that the membership have to fight a bankrupt leadership and win back more power to hold them to account. Sounds like a good idea, yes.

 

[butchersapron]

he hasn't drawn the conclusion he needs to leave the SWP, he's drawn the conclusion that the membership have to fight a bankrupt leadership and win back more power to hold them to account. Sounds like a good idea, yes.

I wasn't talking about his conclusions - i was talking about his willingness to at least take rhetorical responsibility for his parties action - something that you are unwilling to do.

 

[discokermit]

it's warming up a bit, again.

apparently, birchall's piece has provoked a national committee meeting, about the blog it was posted on!
http://sovietgoonboy.wordpress.com/...in-to-see-what-condition-my-condition-was-in/

 

[dominion]

Yeah noticed that. Andy Noman has just posted this:

http://socialistunity.com/more-on-the-swp-alleged-rape-crisis/

 

[butchersapron]

So not about the birchall piece at all. It's all still there.

 

[butchersapron]

Just to clarify:

X did in fact put in a further formal complaint about Comrade Delta, after the January 2013 SWP conference. I understand though, that the SWP Central Committee has decided that the disputes committee will not now hear the complaint made by X against Delta until the new year, in 2014.

The significance is that X was removed from her job in the SWP office after being a witness for “W” because the SWP National Secretary, Charlie Kimber, allegedly said that her continued presence would “disrupt the harmony of the office”. She was asked when complaining of sexual harassment ”is it fair to say you like a drink?”. Quite contrary to how you would expect a woman complaining of sexual harassment to properly be treated, attempts have been made to isolate, silence and discredit her.

My sources tell me that Sheila M, a disputes commitee member who led the discussion off at SWP conference in January, has now submitted a motion to an emergency SWP National Committee (called at 4 days’ notice) opposing the decision not to hear X’s case.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Their leadership are absolutely fucking barking mad, if splinteredsunrise and Newman are correct. Gearing up for a row about a blog while crudely trying to avoid dealing with further allegations against Delta is about the best way I can think of for them to provoke another split and further ostracism.

 

[discokermit]

Their leadership are absolutely fucking barking mad, if splinteredsunrise and Newman are correct. Gearing up for a row about a blog while crudely trying to avoid dealing with further allegations against Delta is about the best way I can think of for them to provoke another split and further ostracism.

if newman is right then it sounds like an attempt to ambush any opposition on the n.c.
call them in under false pretences, then hit them with the emergency motion. afterwards you can say it's all been dealt with. a bit like the special conference.
the fact the motion is being prepared by sheila m, who was such a loyalist in the last round, shows, i think, which way it'll be coming from.

 

[discokermit]

So not about the birchall piece at all. It's all still there.

it certainly is.

i think there was a little hint of it in the birchall piece,

"Of course it is true that the party’s enemies will rejoice in, and seek to take advantage of, our problems. That is something that at least one comrade might have thought about at an earlier stage of the process."