discokermit
Well-Known Member
no it isn't, it's aimed at students.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
This is the SWP response to the UKIP successes in local elections:
"If Ukip comes to your town or neighbourhood you should get organised and protest against it."
I don't really get it, I'm in a mind to email them what kind of protest should it be. What if UKIP is already in your town and neighbourhood?
The basis for the opposition is: "We need to expose its members as an anti-working class, racist rabble. This argument has an audience among workers and activists."
"If Ukip comes to your town or neighbourhood you should get organised and protest against it."
I don't really get it, I'm in a mind to email them what kind of protest should it be. What if UKIP is already in your town and neighbourhood?
The basis for the opposition is: "We need to expose its members as an anti-working class, racist rabble. This argument has an audience among workers and activists."
sptme
我打酱油的
From the link above.
Are they saying that any one that apposes the EU is racist and aping UKIP? Plenty of people on the left oppose the EU and not for racist reason and having no connection to ukip ideas either. I thought this was the SWP position too. bizarre statement.swp said:
Tony Benn is still Boss of the Left after all these years.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I am going to go with a little bit of each.
Although at a guess I think Jones would vote to stay, I think they are having a go at him for the reason he is saying Labour should commit to a referendum not for saying it as such. The article just gives the impression they would vote to stay in when I think they would vote to leave. Basically it is a shit article that is not very clear.
Although at a guess I think Jones would vote to stay, I think they are having a go at him for the reason he is saying Labour should commit to a referendum not for saying it as such. The article just gives the impression they would vote to stay in when I think they would vote to leave. Basically it is a shit article that is not very clear.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
all those people in greece must be a bunch of racists.
The UKIP policies that (it is argued) we should protest against are the opposition to immigration and multiculturalism. there are also some other bizarre hobby horses such as bringing back grammar schools. The SW article should have been clearer on that. SWP position remains opposition to EU membership and joining the Euro ands SW would argue for a no vote on EU membership in a refrendum.
Like that mag you love from Leeds you frothing loon
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Well apparently Alex Callinicos agrees with articul8 that there's a Labour left worth noticing. In fact he thinks that we are seeing the "biggest revival of the Labour left since the heyday of Tony Benn in the 1970s and early 1980s". What a vivid imagination he has.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
they've lost the students, the union fulltimers are keeping their distance, they've got to chase after somebody.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
SWP's coming out on the side of the Islamists rioting across Bangladesh to turn the country into a Sharia state...
https://twitter.com/Feb28info/status/331049413579517955
https://twitter.com/Feb28info/status/331057102195916804
https://twitter.com/Feb28info/status/331049413579517955
https://twitter.com/Feb28info/status/331057102195916804
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
These are the demands of the group which Kimber seems to be siding with:
1. Reinstatement of ‘Absolute trust and faith in Allah’ in the constitution of Bangladesh and abolishment of all laws which are in conflict with the values of the Quran and Sunnah
2. Enactment of (anti-defamation) law at the parliament keeping death penalty as the highest form of punishment to prevent defamation of Allah, Muhammad (S.A.W) and Islam, and prevent spreading hate against Muslims (highest penalty prevalent for defamation is 10 years).
3. Immediate end to the negative propaganda by all atheist bloggers in a leading role in the so called Shahbag movement who have defamed Allah, Mohammad (S.A.W), and Islam and their exemplary punishment.
4. End to all alien cultural practices like immodesty, lewdness, misconduct, culture of free mixing of the sexes, candle lighting in the name of personal freedom and free speech.
5. Abolishment of the anti-Islamic inheritance law and the ungodly education policy. Making Islamic education compulsory in all levels from primary to higher secondary.
6. Declaration of Ahmadis as non-Muslims by the government and put a stop to their negative and conspirational activities.
7. Stop instating more statues in the name of sculpture at road intersections and educational institutions to save Dhaka the city of mosques, from becoming the city of statues.
8. Remove all the hassles and obstructions at Baitul Mokarram and all mosques in Bangladesh which prevent Musallis from offering prayer. Also stop creating obstruction for people to attend religious sermons and other religious gatherings.
9. Stop the spread of Islamophobia among the youth through depiction of negative characters on TV plays & movies in religious attire and painting negative stereotypes of the beard, cap and Islamic practices on various media.
10. Stop anti-Islamic activities at Chittagong propagated by several NGO’s and Christian missionaries under guise of religious conversion.
11. End to the massacre, indiscriminate firing and attacks on the prophet loving Muslim scholars, madrassah students and the general public.
12. End to all threats against Islamic scholars, madrassah students and Imams and Muslim clerics of mosques throughout the country.
13 Immediate and unconditional release of all detained Islamic scholars, madrassah students and members of the general public and withdrawal of all false cases filed against them. Compensation to families of all injured and deceased and exemplary punishment to all those responsible.
1. Reinstatement of ‘Absolute trust and faith in Allah’ in the constitution of Bangladesh and abolishment of all laws which are in conflict with the values of the Quran and Sunnah
2. Enactment of (anti-defamation) law at the parliament keeping death penalty as the highest form of punishment to prevent defamation of Allah, Muhammad (S.A.W) and Islam, and prevent spreading hate against Muslims (highest penalty prevalent for defamation is 10 years).
3. Immediate end to the negative propaganda by all atheist bloggers in a leading role in the so called Shahbag movement who have defamed Allah, Mohammad (S.A.W), and Islam and their exemplary punishment.
4. End to all alien cultural practices like immodesty, lewdness, misconduct, culture of free mixing of the sexes, candle lighting in the name of personal freedom and free speech.
5. Abolishment of the anti-Islamic inheritance law and the ungodly education policy. Making Islamic education compulsory in all levels from primary to higher secondary.
6. Declaration of Ahmadis as non-Muslims by the government and put a stop to their negative and conspirational activities.
7. Stop instating more statues in the name of sculpture at road intersections and educational institutions to save Dhaka the city of mosques, from becoming the city of statues.
8. Remove all the hassles and obstructions at Baitul Mokarram and all mosques in Bangladesh which prevent Musallis from offering prayer. Also stop creating obstruction for people to attend religious sermons and other religious gatherings.
9. Stop the spread of Islamophobia among the youth through depiction of negative characters on TV plays & movies in religious attire and painting negative stereotypes of the beard, cap and Islamic practices on various media.
10. Stop anti-Islamic activities at Chittagong propagated by several NGO’s and Christian missionaries under guise of religious conversion.
11. End to the massacre, indiscriminate firing and attacks on the prophet loving Muslim scholars, madrassah students and the general public.
12. End to all threats against Islamic scholars, madrassah students and Imams and Muslim clerics of mosques throughout the country.
13 Immediate and unconditional release of all detained Islamic scholars, madrassah students and members of the general public and withdrawal of all false cases filed against them. Compensation to families of all injured and deceased and exemplary punishment to all those responsible.
I think its obvious, esp if you look at the dates on those tweets, that Charlie Kimber is defending the workers who died in the factory ('paid with their blood') and those who have gone on strike in response to that, not the islamist protestors.
Not that I'm going to defend every dot and comma of Charlie's position in recent times.
Not that I'm going to defend every dot and comma of Charlie's position in recent times.
oskarsdrum
Active Member
Well here's an SW article on the Bangladesh Hefazat situation: http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art/33266/Police+kill+protesters+as+Bangladesh+crisis+grows
1) Pretty euphemistic way to describe hanging atheists, and the total exclusion of women from anything outside the home.
2) I wonder how "poor" are the Hefazat, Jamaat and BNP "leaders"? And, isn't there another category besides the poor and the middle class that's sometimes been seen as important for socialists....let me see now.....never mind, who cares about the actual unions anyway or whether their female members might like to do their jobs without being assaulted -- when there's grander forces at play!
3) So the massive organisational infrastructure of Islamism isn't any kind of obstacle to "attracting those who look to the Islamists"? Great! All we need is a few good slogans in solidarity with mass rapists and the revolution will be ours.
4) The rage directed specifically at Hasina/Awami seems to be much more the province of BNP/Islamists then the workers. In fact getting rid of Hasina would surely only be a "regime change" for something even worse.
4a.....I'm not lesser evilling in favour of Awami....but focussing on Hasina in particular massively misses the point, especially in comparison to Mubarak ffs, the man who *was* the regime vs a woman who was almost assassinated as leader of the opposition, and was jailed by the military government in 2007? However corrupt a custodian of Bangladeshi capitalism she presently is, that comparison is dangerously absurd.
Still I guess this is just the usual stuff isn't it. For signs of serious desperation how about Kimber's defence of "Lenisism" (LenISism?) against the rest - . I've never seen top SWP types take the trouble of singling the out SP for special criticism before! Sign of acceptance finally of "micro-sect" status? Also, the conclusion is a total classic!
SWP said:
1) Pretty euphemistic way to describe hanging atheists, and the total exclusion of women from anything outside the home.
2) I wonder how "poor" are the Hefazat, Jamaat and BNP "leaders"? And, isn't there another category besides the poor and the middle class that's sometimes been seen as important for socialists....let me see now.....never mind, who cares about the actual unions anyway or whether their female members might like to do their jobs without being assaulted -- when there's grander forces at play!
3) So the massive organisational infrastructure of Islamism isn't any kind of obstacle to "attracting those who look to the Islamists"? Great! All we need is a few good slogans in solidarity with mass rapists and the revolution will be ours.
4) The rage directed specifically at Hasina/Awami seems to be much more the province of BNP/Islamists then the workers. In fact getting rid of Hasina would surely only be a "regime change" for something even worse.
4a.....I'm not lesser evilling in favour of Awami....but focussing on Hasina in particular massively misses the point, especially in comparison to Mubarak ffs, the man who *was* the regime vs a woman who was almost assassinated as leader of the opposition, and was jailed by the military government in 2007? However corrupt a custodian of Bangladeshi capitalism she presently is, that comparison is dangerously absurd.
Still I guess this is just the usual stuff isn't it. For signs of serious desperation how about Kimber's defence of "Lenisism" (LenISism?) against the rest - . I've never seen top SWP types take the trouble of singling the out SP for special criticism before! Sign of acceptance finally of "micro-sect" status? Also, the conclusion is a total classic!
articul8
Dishonest sociopath
He goes far beyond anything I've said. He's gone way too far
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
You'd think that the SWP would have learnt from the multiple rapes and murders of IS-aligned Trots in Egypt what happens to leftists when Islamists take power, but then again you'd have thought the same from Iranian history and/or common sense.
Still, the SWP CC won't ever suffer the consequences, so what's the harm?
Still, the SWP CC won't ever suffer the consequences, so what's the harm?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I know. You are merely wrong. He's a fucking nutcase.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Since the Bangladeshi Islamists are rioting because they want government persecution of Muslim minorities in Bangladesh, I think you could make a very good argument that they are actually working towards instituting Islamophobia.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
why have you ignored mutleys post? It is pretty clear that, whilst the article quoted is incredibly weak and superficial, its hardly saying what you claim at all.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I hadn't bothered to listen to this before you posted it here. The criticisms of the Socialist Party are hilarious. It's the sort of thing you'd expect from a wet behind the ears SWP enthusiast garbling something he'd been told by a drunk older member in the pub some time ago. And that drunk older member was half remembering a particularly tendentious ISJ article from the 80s. From their apparent organisational head honcho, and Callinicos' partner at the top table, it's downright embarrassing.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
'Said very clearly in their publications, if you did deep enough'
Bizarre really. I have no time for any of the SWP's usual boilerplate arguments against the views of the Socialist Party, unsurprisingly, but I don't think I've ever heard them in such a garbled and crass form from such a senior SWP leader.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Because it's consistent with past behaviour and positions and Kimber's comments on twitter are repeated in the following article in which he seems to be calling for the overthrow of the Bangladeshi government by an Islamist protest movement. They are approvingly quoting Feb28 Justice for Bangladesh which is a far-right Islamist movement.
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art/33271/London protest in solidarity with Bangladesh
Edit - if you read the article he actually addressed the Islamist rally which is even worse than I had thought.
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