oskarsdrum
Active Member
at least they don't harp on about sex abuse cover-ups like socialists and feminists tend to. Plus they're anti-blogger.
SWP expulsions and squabbles
- Thread starter Nigel Irritable
- Start date
oskarsdrum
Active Member
It's the moralism of Kimber's SP "critique" that's so pitiful/aggravating. Makes me want to join the most craven gradualists just to be on the other side.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
It's a crap title - 90% of these people are either Islamists or Bangladesh National Party supporters - a wide anti-Awami bloc:
'London protest in solidarity with Bangladesh' should be in ''London protest to support one faction of the Bangladeshi bourgeoisie'
They just lie and lie - the latest claim is that 2,500 Muslim scholars were killed on 5 May 2013.
Belboid be realistic, it's the SWP not knowing what it's talking about.
This is the thread to consider: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...er-hamlets-with-fascists-war-criminals.307454
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I realise that this is somewhat off topic, but what exactly is going on in Bangladesh at the moment? All I know is that "centre left" (ie capitalist) AL won the last elections, that the "centre right" (ie capitalist) BNP are in opposition and that there's some serious street ructions going on. Are the street ructions a reaction to factory disaster, or do they predate that?
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
they predate it - enough right-wingers of our without having to deal with these lot - they think that 2,500 people were killed on 5 May by government forces
The main new issue - as opposed to the traditional mass street protests/hartals of one side vs the other that's common in South Asia is the War Crimes Tribunals - the Bangladeshi local collaborators with the Pakistani army in 1971. They are getting their comeuppance and the religious lot are not happy - hence 'Kangaroo courts'.
Plus lots of racism against non-observant or even Hindu emigrants from India, and urging war amongst peoples against India and Burma - just general irritating against the government from every angle - to block the trials.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
This is the figure at the heart of it Delvar Hussein Sayidi - the vice chief of Jamaat - being found guilty punishable by death of mass murder in 1971.
It's semi-existential for them. If their leaders are stuck with the genocide label around their necks anyone who is not an ultra-devout or strong Muslim believer will spurn their madrasahs and networks, particularly as - in spite of surface appearances - Bangladesh's economy like Pakistan's and Brazil's is sort of humming along despite the global downturn.
Women do increasingly have opportunities in jobs away from the home - changes a lot of things - they Jamaat lose their captive female vote.
http://bdnews24.com/economy/2013/05/08/export-growth-10.14pc-in-10-months
The annoying thing is of course that Awami League are very corrupt and police do mistreat people etc etc. What Jamaat and BNP mobilisations do is give succour to the far-right from the other side so you have:
http://hinduexistence.org/2013/03/0...er-recent-islamic-violence-by-jammat-e-islami
from the Hindu nationalist BJP RSS side in India, similarly the various attacks against the Buddhist minority in Bangladesh whip up Burmese chauvinism.
An OK ish summary on Jamaat's new strategy here:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/05/201356134629980318.html
The problem is the Awami govt. can't hold the secular line they buckle under the first instance of confrontation, partly because the state gives so much money to religious schools.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
What's particularly galling about Hasina's climbdown is the fact that a rightist gang murdered an atheist blogger in the middle of February.
http://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2013/02/16/killers-hacked-rajib-first-then-slit-his-throat-police
Prime Minister Hasina (on left) consoling his mother
then betraying the basic right of people to say 'there is no proveable god, take all religious regressive nonsense out of the education system until humans have a chance to judge all material critically'
As an outsider it's depressing.
http://bdnews24.com/bangladesh/2013/02/16/killers-hacked-rajib-first-then-slit-his-throat-police
Prime Minister Hasina (on left) consoling his mother
then betraying the basic right of people to say 'there is no proveable god, take all religious regressive nonsense out of the education system until humans have a chance to judge all material critically'
As an outsider it's depressing.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
http://www.socialistworker.co.uk/art/33271/London+protest+in+solidarity+with+Bangladesh
Kimber addressing fascist crowd on the need to kill the atheists
Kimber addressing fascist crowd on the need to kill the atheists
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Did the SWP opening a mug shop in margate pass the thread by?
Firebox might sell the frappe, but the swappies sell the mugs!
Firebox might sell the frappe, but the swappies sell the mugs!
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Click on the red stuff link on the SWP page. It seems to be saying there is a bricks and mortar shop. I hope so, there is so much room for extra lols
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
their position was opposition to EU, so obviously not, is the answer to your question.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
guy who runs it is, or was, a party membersadly, i don't think redstuff are a SWP front, just a radical t-shirt shop.
bolshiebhoy
socialism leinster drink
All this excitement about Kimber, the SWP and Bangladesh misses the point. Assaf's piece on Syria and the Isareli air strikes in the same SW is scathing of Hizbollah for weakening and compromising itself by supporting Assad and getting sucked into his sectarian counter revolution. So there is no automatic support of Islamist parties or movements with islamist leaders. What there is is support for the popular revolutions and upheaval across the region which sometimes means being on the same side as Islamists and sometimes not. The key thing is what makes the local working classes stronger not which brand of Islamist you're looking at. Something Counterfire has already forgotten (you won't read that sort of criticism of the 'good' Islamists Hizbollah in their stuff). And I fully expect to see the ISN edge closer and closer to Rees on all this. Its the logic of putting identity before class.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You're so right. That's the trouble with these new, similar words: they so often get confused. It's not like they've been widely analysed in popular discourse for ten years or something.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Can something which is dominated by Islamists (who are by definition putting religious identity before class) really be described as a popular revolution?
SWP say yes, apparently; I say no.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I dont think you understand what 'popular' means. It has nothing to do with whether you like it or not
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's exactly what a popular revolution is - one on a broad cross-crass basis - same as like what a popular front is compared to a united front.
andysays
Love and solidarity
Neither, in this context, does it simply mean "being supported by lots of people" - that would be populist.
"Popular revolution" means revolution with the support of and (crucially) in the interests of the working class. I fail to see how an Islamist "revolution" can meet that definition, so either you think it can/does or you disagree with my definition.
You're welcome to argue either of those points if you wish...
andysays
Love and solidarity
It might be broadly based, but if it isn't in the ultimate interests of the w/c then it doesn't meet my definition.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You're really misusing popular here - and possibly confusing a social revolution with a political revolution as well. It really does not mean on a strict class basis, it means the opposite. That's how it's being used here and in the general trot understanding of forms and types of revolution.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
If i'd have been really on the ball i would have said that they're defined as popular revolutions precisely because they contain islamists...
andysays
Love and solidarity
You'd better get a caffeine top-up as well then.
Back on topic, can anyone explain why, from a Trot point of view, supporting a popular revolution dominated by reactionary religious fundamentalists (just to broaden it out from the specific example here) is a good idea?
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