SWP expulsions and squabbles

[sihhi]

Internal Bulletin Bristol contribution:

"Leadership is a practical question. The sales of Socialist Worker on the question of the NHS have been reminiscent of the Stop the War period. Over 80 in Bristol last Saturday, around 150 in 3 days at various sales. The demonstration in Lewisham of 25,000 people shows the potential. There already exist a number of vehicles which could be used to call a National Demonstration. Keep the NHS Public, 38 Degrees, London Health Emergency could be used. I believe that the Party should now throw the kitchen sink at it. We should aim to leaflet streets, hospitals, workplaces and communities. Motions at union branches and anti-cuts groups, posters and electronic means are all essential. We should approach it in the way we approached the Stop the War Demo of 2002.
In doing this we would strengthen the hand of our comrades in the health unions to overcome the passivity in the bureaucracy of the unions, whether it is left leaning leaders or right.
However, I believe that we must learn the lessons of the Stop the War movement. We must not drop the profile of the Party. We must aim to build Socialist Worker supporters groups in every hospital. We must aim to build Socialist Worker sales at new workplaces.
We need to find the militants we can pull into Unite the Resistance and this could be the perfect vehicle."

What are the lessons of the Stop the War movement? Consider people as lego blocks you pull into crap things, like how you drive a vehicle.

 

[barney_pig]

Internal Bulletin Bristol contribution:

"Leadership is a practical question. The sales of Socialist Worker on the question of the NHS have been reminiscent of the Stop the War period. Over 80 in Bristol last Saturday, around 150 in 3 days at various sales. The demonstration in Lewisham of 25,000 people shows the potential. There already exist a number of vehicles which could be used to call a National Demonstration. Keep the NHS Public, 38 Degrees, London Health Emergency could be used. I believe that the Party should now throw the kitchen sink at it. We should aim to leaflet streets, hospitals, workplaces and communities. Motions at union branches and anti-cuts groups, posters and electronic means are all essential. We should approach it in the way we approached the Stop the War Demo of 2002.
In doing this we would strengthen the hand of our comrades in the health unions to overcome the passivity in the bureaucracy of the unions, whether it is left leaning leaders or right.
However, I believe that we must learn the lessons of the Stop the War movement. We must not drop the profile of the Party. We must aim to build Socialist Worker supporters groups in every hospital. We must aim to build Socialist Worker sales at new workplaces.
We need to find the militants we can pull into Unite the Resistance and this could be the perfect vehicle."

What are the lessons of the Stop the War movement? Consider people as lego blocks you pull into crap things, like how you drive a vehicle.

I am sure the people involved will be thrilled that they are "to be used"

 

[sihhi]

Thames Valley Pete says:

Participants in Occupy Wall Street reportedly had to deal with occurrences of assault, rape and various other forms of abuse. The forms of consensus decision making proved inadequate in dealing with these issues. Laurie Penny reported on a short film posted by a supporter of Occupy Wall Street called “Hot Chicks of Occupy Wall Street”. Anarchist groups too are far from immune to similar problems.
None of this is intended to question the seriousness of such instances in our organisation, (Note: these comments aren’t intended imply guilt in the case discussed in December at conference), but it does indicate that democratic centralism can’t be the flaw which makes this type of event possible. Indeed democratic centralism potentially provides a solid basis for opposing such tendencies.

Did Occupy Wall Street set up a rigged judge and jury disputes commissions with all mates of the male accused? That's the event that this Conference should focus on. There's lots wrong with OWS I'm sure, but the democratic centralism system means imbalances of power (CC versus new recruit) result in cases against the CC being handled in a less than satisfactory manner.
The less power there is in one individual (vis-a-vis the rest of the group) the better and more conducive an environment for taking accusations against the more respected (or more heavily mandated etc) member seriously.

 

[sihhi]

Rob from East London are you blaming the current CC or the 4 who left, be careful unless you become the new mk12!

We cannot repeat the mistake of the Respect debacle of 2008/9. Four members of the CC left the party as a consequence of political adaptation arising from leading the mass anti-capitalist and anti-war movements. As the momentum of these movements ebbed these leading comrades flipped between sectarianism, substitutionism and opportunism in rapid order. The core tension of a united front strategy – that of fighting both ‘with and against’ opposing political traditions – crumbled.

Likewise Damon from Tyneside:

Any organisation with a robust democratic regime and culture would not permit its leadership to carry out such an act. It should be unthinkable. Our party rank-and-file needs to adopt the slogans “We are all the Facebook Four!” and “An injury to one is an injury to all!” We need those comrades back inside our organisation, pronto.

Here are few proposals to consider in the meantime: • Abolish the slate-system and elect the CC
on individual merit • Air differences on the CC openly. • Regional elections for regional full-time
party workers • More IBs of shorter length, with less CC input. • Greatly reduce the powers of the CC to expel comrades • Make space within Socialist Worker and Party Notes for minority opinion within the party

 

[cesare]

How has this IB been compiled, does anyone know?

 

[belboid]

The contribution from the Sheffield stalwarts just sums up the whole CC faction brilliantly/appallingly. Carry on Regardless.

The film has a disturbingly similar plot... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carry_On_Regardless

 

[belboid]

How has this IB been compiled, does anyone know?

Anyone is free to submit contributions to the central office. 'twas detail about the precise procedure a few pages back.

 

[cesare]

Anyone is free to submit contributions to the central office. 'twas detail about the precise procedure a few pages back.

Cheers. So I imagine much of it has been resubmitted from various blog articles, there's much that looks familiar.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

In part, at least, it is down to it being so straightforwardly, unarguably, correct. Okay, it is highly generous to certyain people that most of us here wouldn't be generous to, but as an overall analysis of things from an SWP perspective (or, perhaps, an IS perspective), there just isn't much that can be argued with.

Really? It seems to me that it's quite extraordinarily apolitical, treating the central issue as a decline in the quality of CC fodder over the years.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

The best parts of the bulletin are the letters from simpletons. Which is to say all of many and various contributions which can be summed up as follows: "What crisis? Everything's just fine here in Clacton branch, where we signed up two new members and sold 32 papers last week".

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

The best parts of the bulletin are the letters from simpletons. Which is to say all of many and various contributions which can be summed up as follows: "What crisis? Everything's just fine here in Clacton branch, where we signed up two new members and sold 32 papers last week".

They're the people I mentioned at the begining who were never capable of independent or original thought and simply wouldn't know what to do with out the CC telling them.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Really? It seems to me that it's quite extraordinarily apolitical, treating the central issue as a decline in the quality of CC fodder over the years.

Yeah totally agree, that's what I meant by not very ideological. people are impressed by it cause the author knows a lot of inner workings stuff but the analysis is pretty shit and personalities based as in the worst Kremlinology.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

108 pages

Anyone who says after all this there hasn't been enough discussion of these issues needs to simply get to fuck.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Do you think he (or she) really thinks all the other people praised are brilliant intellectual minds? That Elaine H was a masterful [sic] analyst of late feminism? Or is s/he using them as examples of people who were at least good at thinking critically, at least, and being able to actually answer questions raised from things happening in the here and now? That is what I take from that praise for SEYMOUR! And China. Who on the CC can you imagine really tackling any theoretical questions seriously* apart from his Lordship? If the party drives away people of that ability - even if they would eventually leave anyway - why would anyone at all critical ever join?


* oddly, my spellchecker wanted to replace my initial attempt at 'seriously' with 'sexually'. Comrade Delta is the ghost in my machine....

There's critical and then there's 'destructive' as paragraph 8 of the CC's opening piece in the IB says about RS. He has in fairness driven himself away in the manner he's handled all this.

 

[cesare]

Anyone who says after all this there hasn't been enough discussion of these issues needs to simply get to fuck.

Is the IB unexpurgated?

There's been lots of submission of written material, and I'm sure that there's been lots of discussion on receiving/seeing it; but the discussion hasn't necessarily been held between the people with opposing views.

 

[emanymton]

Yeah totally agree, that's what I meant by not very ideological. people are impressed by it cause the author knows a lot of inner workings stuff but the analysis is pretty shit and personalities based as in the worst Kremlinology.

Which is why the discussion here focused on who wrote it rather than the content, there really wasn't much content to talk about.

Interestingly the IB was up on the CPGB site before it had been mailed to all members, a mate of mine got his email about 9.30, but I found it about an hour before that and it could have been there all day for all I know. Also the CPGB are missing a bit there is one more contribution that was late 'but it wasn't the comrades fault' so has been published separately, makes you wonder just where the leek is.

 

[cesare]

The emails were possibly sent out in batches because of the size of the file attachment.

 

[emanymton]

The emails were possibly sent out in batches because of the size of the file attachment.

Yeah I know which is why I said it was up before all members got it. I am more interested in the fact that they are missing a bit. I am not suggesting that the CC leaked it, although it would be one possibility, but someone who got an early copy of the pdf. Not important just intrigues me a bit.

 

[cesare]

Yeah I know which is why I said it was up before all members got it. I am more interested in the fact that they are missing a bit. I am not suggesting that the CC leaked it, although it would be one possibility, but someone who got an early copy of the pdf. Not important just intrigues me a bit.

I wonder if the distribution list was broken down alphabetically or geographically (by branch).

 

[emanymton]

I wonder if the distribution list was broken down alphabetically or geographically (by branch).

Based on the two emails I am aware of, it is not alphabetical so I would guess branch.

This is possibly the dullest speculation even undertaken.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I wonder if the distribution list was broken down alphabetically or geographically (by branch).

Presumably they use a mail merge from an excel worksheet of the entire memberlist which presumably would for the purposes of a mass non geographically relevant email would be sorted alphabetically or on membership number...

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

This is possibly the dullest speculation even undertaken.

 

[emanymton]

SU has the extra bit if anyone cares.

 

[cesare]

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Not relevant (I hope) but the prof just had an FB update that read "China boosts defence spending..."

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Not relevant (I hope) but the prof just had an FB update that read "China boosts defence spending..."

veiled reference to the hiring of private security goons by the Lynch Mob Faction as some on SU might say?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

veiled reference to the hiring of private security goons by the Lynch Mob Faction as some on SU might say?

Lol no. From the sound of the contributions even by faction members the hard platformists are pretty isolated, no need for any 'special measures', a puff of wind will blow them over.

 

[Red Cat]

Yeah totally agree, that's what I meant by not very ideological. people are impressed by it cause the author knows a lot of inner workings stuff but the analysis is pretty shit and personalities based as in the worst Kremlinology.

I think it was 'impressive' because it's well written.

I think it was a weak argument. On rereading, the conclusion (get rid of Callinicos) doesn't follow from what precedes it, which is largely a series of descriptions rather than analyses. That being said, I think personality and group dynamics should be part of a political analysis.

 

[Scribbling S]

On the "isolation" of the "hard platform" who are "Pretty isolated" - well the "soft platform" say they shouldn't be expelled, which is nice. But the CC say ""every member is bound to uphold and defend the decision of conference in any public forum in which it is discussed, including online. If these norms of party behaviour are breached, we expect comrades to support and defend disciplinary action up to and including expulsion to enforce the will of the party as a whole.” - That is, they want every member to "uphold and defend" the "investigation" into rape (which is what they mean by the "decision of conference") in "any public forum" or be expelled. That is surely a recipe for reducing the party as a whole to a smaller, more isolated bunch.

 

[belboid]

Really? It seems to me that it's quite extraordinarily apolitical, treating the central issue as a decline in the quality of CC fodder over the years.

Really? you should learn to read then Nigel.

If you think slating the entire industrial strategy, the failure of political leadership over two decades, the failure to retain the ISO (for wholly political - albeit unclear and probably dishonest - reasons), implicit (it seems to me) acceptance that 1989 led to far more serious setbacks than previously accepted, and the anti-fascist strategy has been seriously over-stated...if you think all of that is 'extraordinarily apolitical' well, that's your problem.

The best parts of the bulletin are the letters from simpletons.

oh yes, sorry, I was wrong above. your problem isnt not being able to read. Its being a superior snot-nosed cunt who thinks he's better than everyone else, especially those thickies not in the SP. Remind me of those magnificent theoretical contributions and insights from the SP again? Oh yes, thats right. None. Ever.