SWP expulsions and squabbles

[neprimerimye]

For the record there are a fair few comrades in both the Tendency and the Tradition who can write with humour and style. Obviously not in party publications.....

 

[chilango]

For the record there are a fair few comrades in both the Tendency and the Tradition who can write with humour and style. Obviously not in party publications.....

I like the way you've capitalised "Tradition" there. Nice touch.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Not an American but the author, if my guess is correct, was a Shact.

Surely there can't be too many of those who aren't Americans?

 

[butchersapron]

Or CIA.

 

[neprimerimye]

I can do Trotskyist bullit points and exclamation marks too!!!!

1/ It adds impact!!!

2/ It's transitional!!!

3/ It's impactful and transitional!!!!

 

[butchersapron]

Did we ever clear up why SEYMOUR! claimed to have met the real david rose that hari mocked up?

 

[killer b]

Did we ever clear up why SEYMOUR! claimed to have met the real david rose that hari mocked up?

i don't think we did. but now is definitely the time to ask...

 

[Nigel Irritable]

He may be a little distracted at the moment, due to an unexpected promotion awarded by Forbes magazine.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Attempting to stop people doing stuff is not a "tactical difference".

Threatening to call the cops is not a "tactical difference".

Knowingly building up the fascists is not a "tactical difference".

It's an act of aggression.

Self-serving, too.
Still, you're not allowed to mention these rather obvious factors to rmp3, unless you want to be accused of being a conspiracy theorist.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I Hale your punning

Could have been worse, it could have been bignose1 punning.

 

[redsquirrel]

No...go back and read my previous posts which clearly criticise the SWP handling of the case...I have not said anything about being happy to have my daughters around him.
I find it incredible that anyone can write shit like this in response to me saying fuck the UAF lacks a bit of perspective...I never claimed my kids would be distressed I said that they'd think that someone who said it was being a prick.
This is why I stay the fuck away from the organised left and ...one disagreement and personal shit is thrown around...so far I've been criticised for mentioning my daughters...you've suggested I'm happy for for my kids to associate with someone accused of rape...some one else has mentioned the swps handling of the rape case even though my comments were I THINK SAYING FUCK THE UAF & HOPING THE RAPE CRISIS BRINGS DOWN THE UAF lacks perspective. Personally I hope anyone who is a rapist is jailed but hey ho ... maybe this is me being a wooly liberal again.

Grow up, no one has thrown any "personal shit" at you.

You brought up the fact that your daughters attending a UAF march as some sort of proof it it's success. You can't then complain when other people also mention them - an no one has attacked them or made any out of order comments. People have just taken apart your incoherent argument.

 

[comrade spurski]

Grow up, no one has thrown any "personal shit" at you.

You brought up the fact that your daughters attending a UAF march as some sort of proof it it's success. You can't then complain when other people also mention them - an no one has attacked them or made any out of order comments. People have just taken apart your incoherent argument.

I said my mates and kids would not know anything about the internal politics so saying those things would make them avoid the left. For this Barney Pig ( hope this has been spelt correctly) said that I am happy to have my daughters associated with a man who is accused and strongly believed to be a rapist...that is NOT a deconstruction of my view nor is telling me to grow up (which people can and do disagree with) ... accusing me of being happy to have my daughters associated with a possible rapist is well fucking out of order....

I hope you all enjoy your forum ... I am off back to my normal mates who can discuss and debate without all the usual sectarian bollocks that destroys the left. Many slate the SWP for being mindlessly sectarian (which I agree with) but some of you act the same way to some one who you disagree with for no reason that makes sense to me.

 

[Red Cat]

For the record there are a fair few comrades in both the Tendency and the Tradition who can write with humour and style. Obviously not in party publications.....

Obviously not! But why not? I never understood that.

 

[andysays]

So who is "Comrade Sigma", the pseudonymous writer of this lament?

http://sovietgoonboy.wordpress.com/...-and-the-guillotine-our-tendency-after-cliff/

I find it curious that there seems to be far more interested in who wrote this that in what whoever-the-fuck-it-is has written.

Maybe it's just because, not knowing the various suggested authors, I'm unable to join in the guessing game, but isn't it at least of some interest to address what they've written, irrespective of who exactly they are?

This is a genuine question - I'm not trying to have a poke at either Nigel for posing the question or the many who have responded, and I'm not saying the question shouldn't be addressed, but it appears to be the only aspect people are interested in exploring.

To me, and I admit I'm something of an outsider here, that seems kind of strange.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

He may be a little distracted at the moment, due to an unexpected promotion awarded by Forbes magazine.

Bizarre wasn't it, his tweet was hilarious.

 

[belboid]

I find it curious that there seems to be far more interested in who wrote this that in what whoever-the-fuck-it-is has written.

In part, at least, it is down to it being so straightforwardly, unarguably, correct. Okay, it is highly generous to certyain people that most of us here wouldn't be generous to, but as an overall analysis of things from an SWP perspective (or, perhaps, an IS perspective), there just isn't much that can be argued with.

 

[Lower Ground]

Bugger this Iam off to read my Internal Bulletin for the "Special Conference" can it be worse than this ?.....yep

 

[barney_pig]

Bugger this Iam off to read my Internal Bulletin for the "Special Conference" can it be worse than this ?.....yep

That was quick

 

[andysays]

In part, at least, it is down to it being so straightforwardly, unarguably, correct. Okay, it is highly generous to certyain people that most of us here wouldn't be generous to, but as an overall analysis of things from an SWP perspective (or, perhaps, an IS perspective), there just isn't much that can be argued with.

Fair enough (and there was me thinking people were refraining from commenting until they knew the author so they'd also know what side to take...)

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Fair enough (and there was me thinking people were refraining from commenting until they knew the author so they'd also know what side to take...)

Definately not the case with most people here, who I imagine would agree with some of it and not other parts, or disagree with most of it whoever wrote it.

 

[discokermit]

i agree with most of it.

 

[One_Stop_Shop]

Going back to what Rmp3 said earlier about the SWP don't regard the rest of the left as their enemies. If that's the case they don't have a very funny way of showing it in terms of the dishonesty and sectarianism that they routinely show. It's just not true to say some on the left aren't our enemies. For instance because the class struggle is so low in the UK at the moment the left can be largely ignored. However when working class militancy rises how can you not say that social democrats and left social democrats won't be an enemy? The social democrats that murdered Rosa Luxemburg were far to the left of the current Labour Party lot. But even in the here and now the trade union bureaucracy is the enemy, even sections of it that call themselves left, like the leadership of the NUT.

Also there is the obvious example of stalinists.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

i agree with most of it.

If it was written by Jonathan Neale I'm agin it

 

[emanymton]

That was quick

Apparently it is 137,000 words as well!!

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Going back to what Rmp3 said earlier about the SWP don't regard the rest of the left as their enemies. If that's the case they don't have a very funny way of showing it in terms of the dishonesty and sectarianism that they routinely show. It's just not true to say some on the left aren't our enemies. For instance because the class struggle is so low in the UK at the moment the left can be largely ignored. However when working class militancy rises how can you not say that social democrats and left social democrats won't be an enemy? The social democrats that murdered Rosa Luxemburg were far to the left of the current Labour Party lot. But even in the here and now the trade union bureaucracy is the enemy, even sections of it that call themselves left, like the leadership of the NUT.

Also there is the obvious example of stalinists.

burble burble

 

[sevenstars]

The social democrats that murdered Rosa Luxemburg were far to the left of the current Labour Party lot. But even in the here and now the trade union bureaucracy is the enemy, even sections of it that call themselves left, like the leadership of the NUT.

Rosa Luxembourg and comrades were Social-Democrats once too though, part of the labour movement and separated from the mainstream under the pressure of revolutionary events. Maybe they should have done so earlier, but without these roots they'd have just been irrelevent to begin with.

 

[emanymton]

Going back to what Rmp3 said earlier about the SWP don't regard the rest of the left as their enemies. If that's the case they don't have a very funny way of showing it in terms of the dishonesty and sectarianism that they routinely show. It's just not true to say some on the left aren't our enemies. For instance because the class struggle is so low in the UK at the moment the left can be largely ignored. However when working class militancy rises how can you not say that social democrats and left social democrats won't be an enemy? The social democrats that murdered Rosa Luxemburg were far to the left of the current Labour Party lot. But even in the here and now the trade union bureaucracy is the enemy, even sections of it that call themselves left, like the leadership of the NUT.

Also there is the obvious example of stalinists.

So basically, your enemies are everyone but yourself.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Fair enough (and there was me thinking people were refraining from commenting until they knew the author so they'd also know what side to take...)

I don't need to wait that long. Minute the author made SEYMOUR! the happy ending I knew where he was coming from.

 

[barney_pig]

Going back to what Rmp3 said earlier about the SWP don't regard the rest of the left as their enemies. If that's the case they don't have a very funny way of showing it in terms of the dishonesty and sectarianism that they routinely show. It's just not true to say some on the left aren't our enemies. For instance because the class struggle is so low in the UK at the moment the left can be largely ignored. However when working class militancy rises how can you not say that social democrats and left social democrats won't be an enemy? The social democrats that murdered Rosa Luxemburg were far to the left of the current Labour Party lot. But even in the here and now the trade union bureaucracy is the enemy, even sections of it that call themselves left, like the leadership of the NUT.

Also there is the obvious example of stalinists.

And Those pesky Russian social democrats that betrayed the Russian revolution.

 

[Red Cat]

I don't need to wait that long. Minute the author made SEYMOUR! the happy ending I knew where he was coming from.

Where does he or she do that?