SWP expulsions and squabbles

[discokermit]

I joined the SWP in 1986,

when you were fourteen?

 

[cesare]

solfed an anarcho-syndicalist organisation (never previously heard it called a union), iww a trade union friendly to but not anarcho-syndicalist

There's a bit more description about the revolutionary union aspect in their aims, here: http://www.solfed.org.uk/?q=the-aims-of-the-solidarity-federation

 

[past caring]

I used to love selling Socialist Worker! It used to feel good to be a part of the SWP. How times have changed.

Some real highpoints were the principled stand in defence of asylum seekers that the party fought hard on - this was around 1996 - 2000, when I was a relatively 'active' member. Then the anti-capitalist movement kind of exploded, the culmination (personally speaking) was Genoa, 2000. I was 28 at the time, and it was an incredible time politically. It really felt like revolution was on the agenda.

Then 9/11 came along. And the world changed forever.

But the roots of the crisis in the SWP go much deeper, and now the Owl of Minerva has taken wing, we have the luxury to contemplate on that. Tragically, the SWP have never really bothered to nurture a thinking, independent, intellectually robust membership. Maybe this was partly due to the alliance of national secretary Chris Bambery's Calvinism (in the ascendant in the 80s/90s) and Cliff's bubbling optimism, understandably together this alliance was undisputed throughout much of the 1980s. In hindsight however, we can see how the Cliff/Bambery alliance sowed the seeds of the current implosion of the SWP. 'The Elect' could get on with the important business of 'thinking' while the rank and file could get on with the doing.

Bambery's latest incarnation, the IST in Scotland, is tub thumping about the so-called 'morally bankrupt' bankers. Not sure exactly which part of Das Capital that analysis can be found - certainly not Volume 3. Maybe Bambery never read that far.

I joined the SWP in 1986, during the Wapping dispute, and while the Great Miner's Strike was still uppermost in people's minds, and quite understandably, the emphasis was always on 'activity.' I am sure a lot of us thought the revolution would be, essentially, quite a simple affair. I for one genuinely believed it was just a lack of will and effort on our part that would cause the revolution to go off course or fail to become incubated.

But at least, even then, back in 1986, the party had a bit of a drive at 'educating' the membership - a half-arsed attempt was made to get the 'comrades' to comprehend what was meant by 'a critique of political economy' but it was a bit like the blind leading the blind. Everything boiled down to getting people to swallow the one insight of Marx's of the 'tendency of the rate of profit to fall' - as if Capital was literally built around this (it wasn't).

This dove-tailed nicely with the whole trotskyist analysis that the only barrier to revolution was the putting in place of 'the right proletarian leadership.' Once the cowardly and craven trade union bureaucrats were swept aside, then the decent and principled leaderhip of the revolutionary party could take over the reins, and so usher in the era of socialism. If you look at the approach the SWP and most of the trotskyist left have to the critique of political economy, this analysis fits. Essentially, in the broadest outline, Trotskyism is Stalinism. Hence, I have to say, despite the fond memories and respect I have for some people in the SWP, its demise, like the collapse of the Berlin wall, is something to be celebrated...

Nothing about Marx's critique of the fetish of commodities is mentioned by the SWP, not really. It is given a bit of an airing every now and then by some PhD student in an obscure journal, but then to be fair this is a critique that is only really coming into its own in recent years, what with the renaissance in Hegelian marxism that is currently underway elsewhere - i.e., outside ofthe bloody SWP! Don't forget - Alex Callincos cut his teeth on Althusser. Callinicos hates Hegel! He will never broach that subject, although people like Esther Leslie occasionally get to pen an article, and the journal Historical Materialism is the place academics can wank off about esoteric stuff like that.

Hi Sean - funny thing you turning up here.

Where the fuck were you on Monday?

(that'll get him wondering. )

 

[two sheds]

Hi Sean - funny thing you turning up here.

Where the fuck were you on Monday?

(that'll get him wondering. )

Doubtful - most of the people he knows are probably past caring.

 

[discokermit]

View attachment 28649

you a friend of andy as well then?

 

[imposs1904]

you a friend of andy as well then?

I am.

 

[Sean Delaney]

ha ha! Past Caring! Terrible nom de guerre, mon brav

 

[imposs1904]

I am. On facebook, I mean. I sure he doesn't know me form Adam.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Strong but as yet unconfirmed rumours that the SWP fulltimer in Sheffield has resigned. Hopefully a mate will get back to me soon and I'll be able to confirm. Interesting if true because he came here from Leeds and I understand he was quite close to Paris in the past.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Strong but as yet unconfirmed rumours that the SWP fulltimer in Sheffield has resigned. Hopefully a mate will get back to me soon and I'll be able to confirm. Interesting if true because he came here from Leeds and I understand he was quite close to Paris in the past.

His job, or from the Party?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Resigned as regional organiser is what I've been told - just a rumour for now but a strong one.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Resigned as regional organiser is what I've been told - just a rumour for now but a strong one.

Wasn't there today now I think about it.

 

[Santiagotalk]

No it doesn't, it means their organsiers can think for them - and where is that claim made anyway?

More to the point, what does it do to your claim that no branches ever get given paper sale quotas?

That argument fits your perception that the avarage SWP member is stupid. Thanks for that Comrade!

The point I made was that members did not have quoters and members did not have to pay for unsold papers.

 

[Santiagotalk]

I think I have a pretty good grasp of the SWP's structure, such as it is. And their culture. And one of the ways those two things interact is that different branches and regions can be really quite vigorously different from each other, depending on the personality and outlook of a few key individuals (most importantly the District Organiser).

Therefore what you are saying is that individual members are in fact capable of individual thought?

 

[Santiagotalk]

There used to be some. How many canteens are there in the workplace these days? The glory days of works canteens with subsidised hot meals are long gone, well apart from the House of Commons, minus the hard labour, at a number of levels.

For canteen read, rest room, lobby, hut messroom, cafe etc etc etc.

 

[Santiagotalk]

Right so there were attempts to impose targets? Your branch didn't go for it.

You are clutching at straws. Lol

 

[Santiagotalk]

Won't that depend on the individual branch? I'm sure most branches of any trot party have targets for selling papers, but all it takes is one particularly zealous branch organiser, keen to show how good they are at flogging papers to their superiors in the party, for those voluntary targets to become a quota, and for bullying to ensue as a result of that?

There is a danger in what you say and that as happened from time to time.

 

[Santiagotalk]

On a couple of other issues:

1) I hear (from leftist trainspotters) that the Sheffield District Organiser has resigned in sympathy with the Opposition.

2) I hear (from the tendance Coatesy blog) that the number of NC members voting against the CC motion was eight. There are fifty on the NC, but it's not clear how many of them were there (I'd guess 45 or so).

47

 

[SpineyNorman]

When I was in the SWP there were definitely no quotas and nobody was forced to pay for papers they'd not sold or anything like that.

There was sometimes quite a lot of pressure put on people to take them though and it wouldn't surprise me at all if some of them did pay for them and make out they'd sold them, if only to make yourself look good or just to avoid hassle.

 

[Santiagotalk]

sometimes to the detriment of their own health, if the gauntness of a number of members of the swp i've seen is down to them paying from the housekeeping to exaggerate the volume of socialist worker sales.

I think you are thinking of the WRP. They did pay for all their unpaid papers.

 

[kavenism]

When I was in the SWP there were definitely no quotas and nobody was forced to pay for papers they'd not sold or anything like that.

There was sometimes quite a lot of pressure put on people to take them though and it wouldn't surprise me at all if some of them did pay for them and make out they'd sold them, if only to make yourself look good or just to avoid hassle.

This was my experience too. 50 papers which I collected weekly. Few people would take them at the branch and I was not of the persuasion to try and blackmail people into doing so. I used to organise at least one sale a week, occasionally two, but getting people to help was often difficult and I used to resort to asking people from other branches to chip in. Regarding the cash. I don't think I ever just threw in extra cash of my own in lieu of actually getting papers into people's hands. What I did do quite regularly was to sell it at less than the 80p as it was then and make up the difference, or if I had a good conversation with someone but they didn't want to pay for the paper I'd give it to them for free and pay for it myself. Then I was one of those working middle class members who could afford to do things like that. I recall one dull (and it must have been very very dull) afternoon when after my weekly shop at Tesco, I spent 40mins or so hawking the paper to people returning to their cars outside. I sold 15 which was something of an event in my district. The success was put down to my 'ruling class visage'! Ah good times

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Therefore what you are saying is that individual members are in fact capable of individual thought?

What? When have I claimed otherwise? I think you might have mistaken me for someone else.

 

[SpackleFrog]

You know what fella, you really have nothing to offer. I don't mind you but you are a minor annoyance.

I'm being polite cause I'm just back from the Millenium Stadium on a high.

You got seriously lucky pal. If the ref had only played three halves we'd have destroyed you. Oh, and Faletau def scored.

 

[bolshiebhoy]

Good contribution. A refreshing change from that SWP love-in going on above your post!

More oblique than refreshing. So the problem with Trotskyism is a lack of a critique of political economy?! What does that even mean? Not enough Kapital reading groups?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Strong but as yet unconfirmed rumours that the SWP fulltimer in Sheffield has resigned. Hopefully a mate will get back to me soon and I'll be able to confirm. Interesting if true because he came here from Leeds and I understand he was quite close to Paris in the past.

Just had this confirmed as true.

 

[imposs1904]

An exchange of views in the ISO's Socialist Worker

 

[Nigel Irritable]

So the soft opposition reappear. According to the Weekly Worker, there were over 160 signatories to a soft opposition document distributed at the NC demanding concessions from the CC or else they would start campaigning for a recall conference.

 

[TremulousTetra]

Branches dont talk to each other, comrades do! Get your facts right.

he's just on a windup mate. LOL

 

[Pickman's model]

he's just on a windup mate. LOL

fuck off you dull cunt oxygen thief.

 

[Pickman's model]

Therefore what you are saying is that individual members are in fact capable of individual thought?

reread the post