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SWP expulsions and squabbles

No it doesn't, it means their organsiers can think for them - and where is that claim made anyway?

More to the point, what does it do to your claim that no branches ever get given paper sale quotas?
Thinking back on it the issue with targets was it determined how many papers you got sent, so rather like the infamous membership list there was always a struggle to get the number reduced.

'No we don't need 100 papers 50 is quite enough'

I decided they had a point on this one and it was always better to have two many the first time we had a really god saturday sale and sold out of the bloody things.

What pressure there was around selling the paper was simply about making the effort not how many you sold. Being asked to take three papers away an try and sell them is very different from being told you have to sell three papers. Maybe some of the horror stories above is people not getting this distinction? Or as has been suggested just a local dickhead paper orginser, although the SWP is meant to be a party of Bolsheviks for gods sake just tell them to fuck It's like the Anna Chen piece from the other day moaning about how much free work she did for the SWP, if she hasn't got the sense to tell them to get stuffed that's her problem. Being able to say NO is very important for an SWP member. Oh yeah I was a crap paper seller and during my time in the SWP I was in 4 different branches across 2 districts and had 3 different district organizers, and never once had a lecture about selling more papers.

Nigel is pretty much spot on including about the stupid competition, I wonder if they still produce the league tables for Marxism bookings? Based on what percentage of last years booking each district has managed to achieve. Now not that I buy into this competitiveness but the year I was a district marxism orginser my district came top.
 
The most I ever sold on any sale was in front of the GPO in Dublin on XMas Eve and that was mostly sympathy sales. I was proud as punch of that tidy sum and emanymton is right I should have said NO to my own internal fulltimer. There was certainly no real fulltimer telling me to stay there until I reached a quota.
 
Cheers! How many were in the batch - did it depend on the number of members in the branch?

We were a small branch of about five, and I think our paper batch was about 40, or 50 when something big was coming up. We had a few non members locally who asked to get the paper regularly, and then there was the Sat sale, hospital, college, etc.

Apparently at one Leeds branch the paper organiser did try to impose individual targets and was laughed at. I can see though that somebody relatively new and/or young might feel that they had to meet a target if given one.
 
Sounds more and more like the cubs each post.
Actually that's not so wrong. If the fulltimers could have handed out merit badges they would have. Selling a lot of papers could certainly buy a lot of leeway for other sins. We had one guy in our branch in Dublin who was pretty much a Left Republican Stalinist who I liked immensely but never understood why he was with us (other than he wasn't mad enough to join the IRSP) and he sold unbelievable amounts of papers. Which earnt him a friendly grin at marches from the fulltimers when he cheekily suggested we get into 3 lines like the shinners.
 
The most I ever sold on any sale was in front of the GPO in Dublin on XMas Eve and that was mostly sympathy sales. I was proud as punch of that tidy sum and emanymton is right I should have said NO to my own internal fulltimer. There was certainly no real fulltimer telling me to stay there until I reached a quota.
You just reminded me of something. I remember one saturdays sale were the full timer decided to call it of as it was pissing it down and she started to text people to let them know we would be having a meeting in a coffee shop instead. She suddenly stopped and went 'shit I just send that to Julie Waterson by mistake' (this was back when Julie was on the CC). about 5 minutes later Julie phones her up just to laugh at her.
 
Don't know what the current situation is, but in the early 1990s 'Party Notes' told branches that only those who met a target number of SW sales were to be eligible for leadership positions on local branch committees. Those (often good comrades) who had difficult workplace situations and couldn't fulfil the quota were henceforth regarded as 'backward' and more or less valueless political failures..

i turned my back on the swp when the local branch official/s deliberately thwarted attempts to question the position and instead encouraged a bullying response to dissident voices.

As someone above remarked; "1950s corporate quality control" had become part of the revolutionary party's MO, and proper internal discussion more or less absent. Nothing much appears to have changed.
 
The only time I remember conflict about paper sales was when it was appropriate to do it. Not how many you managed.

Back in 93 when Paul Foot and other journos at the Mirror were fighting for the soul of the paper and found themselves on the pavement in front of the building I was summoned early one morning by comrade delta from the nearby LSE to sell our paper to them all. Footy welcomed us to the picket but asked us not to sell as he was in some delicate discussion with his colleagues and didn't feel us milling about shoving the paper in their gobs would help. Delta disagreed but complied to the extent that we stood to one side and didn't oversell! Never a problem for me :)
 
You just reminded me of something. I remember one saturdays sale were the full timer decided to call it of as it was pissing it down and she started to text people to let them know we would be having a meeting in a coffee shop instead. She suddenly stopped and went 'shit I just send that to Julie Waterson by mistake' (this was back when Julie was on the CC). about 5 minutes later Julie phones her up just to laugh at her.
She would :) Though she might have suggested a pub instead.
 
Don't know what the current situation is, but in the early 1990s 'Party Notes' told branches that only those who met a target number of SW sales were to be eligible for leadership positions on local branch committees. Those (often good comrades) who had difficult workplace situations and couldn't fulfil the quota were henceforth regarded as 'backward' and more or less valueless political failures..

i turned my back on the swp when the local branch official/s deliberately thwarted attempts to question the position and instead encouraged a bullying response to dissident voices.

As someone above remarked; "1950s corporate quality control" had become part of the revolutionary party's MO, and proper internal discussion more or less absent. Nothing much appears to have changed.
Nothing like that when I was a member. Were leadership positions on branch committees in hot demand at the time, my experience was always too few people wanted these jobs rather than too many.
 
Don't know what the current situation is, but in the early 1990s 'Party Notes' told branches that only those who met a target number of SW sales were to be eligible for leadership positions on local branch committees.
That's when I was a member too so I ought to remember that but honsetly can't. Certainly never was applied in any branch I was in. As emanymton says it wasn't as if people were queuing up to be on the bc. And we certainly had people on them who couldn't sell a paper to save their lives but were recognised as invaluable to the functioning of the branch. Maybe it was different in some of the larger branches around the country.
 
Were leadership positions on branch committees in hot demand at the time, my experience was always too few people wanted these jobs rather than too many.

i can't remember that committee positions were desperately wanted by rank and file people, but there may have been a move to incorporate the most active/successful sellers into local branch structures. The problem as i saw it related to the message being sent - those comrades whose opportunities for 'good' paper sale returns were limited (for whatever reason) were being needlessly undervalued.

Its yer Leninist elitism init.
 
There's the rub. My favorite speech of Cliff was the one were he used to tell us all to model ourselves on shop stewards.
the people i've known who had genuine leadership rarely went for formal posts. there was one man out of camden stop the poll tax who i've always had immense respect for, an 'independent socialist', who both walked the walk and talked the talk: and some former members of class war, including one or two who post here. there's the leadership of ideas, which is good, but when allied with charisma it's a heady brew.
 
That's when I was a member too so I ought to remember that but honsetly can't. Certainly never was applied in any branch I was in. As emanymton says it wasn't as if people were queuing up to be on the bc. And we certainly had people on them who couldn't sell a paper to save their lives but were recognised as invaluable to the functioning of the branch. Maybe it was different in some of the larger branches around the country.


The branch i was in was tiny-ish bolshie. Perhaps a dozen regular attendees (obviously a few more non attenders).
 
Individual SWP members do not have individual paper sales quotas. SWP branches do not have branch quotas. I have never paid for unsold papers or know of any other member of my branch paying for unsold papers.

There was the "Three for me" initiative. There was certainly pressure on members to meet a quota during that period. And members did just pay out if their own pockets for imaginary sales to keep the paper organisers off their back.
 
I used to love selling Socialist Worker! It used to feel good to be a part of the SWP. How times have changed.

Some real highpoints were the principled stand in defence of asylum seekers that the party fought hard on - this was around 1996 - 2000, when I was a relatively 'active' member. Then the anti-capitalist movement kind of exploded, the culmination (personally speaking) was Genoa, 2000. I was 28 at the time, and it was an incredible time politically. It really felt like revolution was on the agenda.

Then 9/11 came along. And the world changed forever.

But the roots of the crisis in the SWP go much deeper, and now the Owl of Minerva has taken wing, we have the luxury to contemplate on that. Tragically, the SWP have never really bothered to nurture a thinking, independent, intellectually robust membership. Maybe this was partly due to the alliance of national secretary Chris Bambery's Calvinism (in the ascendant in the 80s/90s) and Cliff's bubbling optimism, understandably together this alliance was undisputed throughout much of the 1980s. In hindsight however, we can see how the Cliff/Bambery alliance sowed the seeds of the current implosion of the SWP. 'The Elect' could get on with the important business of 'thinking' while the rank and file could get on with the doing.

Bambery's latest incarnation, the IST in Scotland, is tub thumping about the so-called 'morally bankrupt' bankers. Not sure exactly which part of Das Capital that analysis can be found - certainly not Volume 3. Maybe Bambery never read that far.

I joined the SWP in 1986, during the Wapping dispute, and while the Great Miner's Strike was still uppermost in people's minds, and quite understandably, the emphasis was always on 'activity.' I am sure a lot of us thought the revolution would be, essentially, quite a simple affair. I for one genuinely believed it was just a lack of will and effort on our part that would cause the revolution to go off course or fail to become incubated.

But at least, even then, back in 1986, the party had a bit of a drive at 'educating' the membership - a half-arsed attempt was made to get the 'comrades' to comprehend what was meant by 'a critique of political economy' but it was a bit like the blind leading the blind. Everything boiled down to getting people to swallow the one insight of Marx's of the 'tendency of the rate of profit to fall' - as if Capital was literally built around this (it wasn't).

This dove-tailed nicely with the whole trotskyist analysis that the only barrier to revolution was the putting in place of 'the right proletarian leadership.' Once the cowardly and craven trade union bureaucrats were swept aside, then the decent and principled leaderhip of the revolutionary party could take over the reins, and so usher in the era of socialism. If you look at the approach the SWP and most of the trotskyist left have to the critique of political economy, this analysis fits. Essentially, in the broadest outline, Trotskyism is Stalinism. Hence, I have to say, despite the fond memories and respect I have for some people in the SWP, its demise, like the collapse of the Berlin wall, is something to be celebrated...

Nothing about Marx's critique of the fetish of commodities is mentioned by the SWP, not really. It is given a bit of an airing every now and then by some PhD student in an obscure journal, but then to be fair this is a critique that is only really coming into its own in recent years, what with the renaissance in Hegelian marxism that is currently underway elsewhere - i.e., outside ofthe bloody SWP! Don't forget - Alex Callincos cut his teeth on Althusser. Callinicos hates Hegel! He will never broach that subject, although people like Esther Leslie occasionally get to pen an article, and the journal Historical Materialism is the place academics can wank off about esoteric stuff like that.
 
There was the "Three for me" initiative. There was certainly pressure on members to meet a quota during that period. And members did just pay out if their own pockets for imaginary sales to keep the paper organisers off their back.
sometimes to the detriment of their own health, if the gauntness of a number of members of the swp i've seen is down to them paying from the housekeeping to exaggerate the volume of socialist worker sales.
 
It may not be just *your* interest, The39thStep, but you are the person that is specifically raising it (again).

Afed and Solfed are two different anarchist organisations, and operate separately with different constitutions and aims/objectives which are set out on their respective websites.I'm not a member of either and never have have been, so I can only describe what I perceive to be the differences and someone more knowledgeable than me can put me right if necessary.

Afed - Anarcho-communist, a class struggle organisation which aims to abolish capitalism. Some of its members meet and organise, but it's possible to be a member without becoming involved in direct action.
Solfed - Anarcho- syndicalist, which is anarchism applied to the workers' movement. A revolutionary union based on direct action and direct democracy. Its members meet and organise.

What's the difference between Solfed and the IWW then? (genuinely interested btw, not taking the piss)
 
I used to love selling Socialist Worker! It used to feel good to be a part of the SWP. How times have changed.

Some real highpoints were the principled stand in defence of asylum seekers that the party fought hard on - this was around 1996 - 2000, when I was a relatively 'active' member. Then the anti-capitalist movement kind of exploded, the culmination (personally speaking) was Genoa, 2000. I was 28 at the time, and it was an incredible time politically. It really felt like revolution was on the agenda.

Then 9/11 came along. And the world changed forever.

But the roots of the crisis in the SWP go much deeper, and now the Owl of Minerva has taken wing, we have the luxury to contemplate on that. Tragically, the SWP have never really bothered to nurture a thinking, independent, intellectually robust membership. Maybe this was partly due to the alliance of national secretary Chris Bambery's Calvinism (in the ascendant in the 80s/90s) and Cliff's bubbling optimism, understandably together this alliance was undisputed throughout much of the 1980s. In hindsight however, we can see how the Cliff/Bambery alliance sowed the seeds of the current implosion of the SWP. 'The Elect' could get on with the important business of 'thinking' while the rank and file could get on with the doing.

Bambery's latest incarnation, the IST in Scotland, is tub thumping about the so-called 'morally bankrupt' bankers. Not sure exactly which part of Das Capital that analysis can be found - certainly not Volume 3. Maybe Bambery never read that far.

I joined the SWP in 1986, during the Wapping dispute, and while the Great Miner's Strike was still uppermost in people's minds, and quite understandably, the emphasis was always on 'activity.' I am sure a lot of us thought the revolution would be, essentially, quite a simple affair. I for one genuinely believed it was just a lack of will and effort on our part that would cause the revolution to go off course or fail to become incubated.

But at least, even then, back in 1986, the party had a bit of a drive at 'educating' the membership - a half-arsed attempt was made to get the 'comrades' to comprehend what was meant by 'a critique of political economy' but it was a bit like the blind leading the blind. Everything boiled down to getting people to swallow the one insight of Marx's of the 'tendency of the rate of profit to fall' - as if Capital was literally built around this (it wasn't).

This dove-tailed nicely with the whole trotskyist analysis that the only barrier to revolution was the putting in place of 'the right proletarian leadership.' Once the cowardly and craven trade union bureaucrats were swept aside, then the decent and principled leaderhip of the revolutionary party could take over the reins, and so usher in the era of socialism. If you look at the approach the SWP and most of the trotskyist left have to the critique of political economy, this analysis fits. Essentially, in the broadest outline, Trotskyism is Stalinism. Hence, I have to say, despite the fond memories and respect I have for some people in the SWP, its demise, like the collapse of the Berlin wall, is something to be celebrated...

Nothing about Marx's critique of the fetish of commodities is mentioned by the SWP, not really. It is given a bit of an airing every now and then by some PhD student in an obscure journal, but then to be fair this is a critique that is only really coming into its own in recent years, what with the renaissance in Hegelian marxism that is currently underway elsewhere - i.e., outside ofthe bloody SWP! Don't forget - Alex Callincos cut his teeth on Althusser. Callinicos hates Hegel! He will never broach that subject, although people like Esther Leslie occasionally get to pen an article, and the journal Historical Materialism is the place academics can wank off about esoteric stuff like that.

Good contribution. A refreshing change from that SWP love-in going on above your post!
 
Some real highpoints were the principled stand in defence of asylum seekers that the party fought hard on - this was around 1996 - 2000, when I was a relatively 'active' member. Then the anti-capitalist movement kind of exploded, the culmination (personally speaking) was Genoa, 2000. I was 28 at the time, and it was an incredible time politically. It really felt like revolution was on the agenda.

So true !! :D :(
 
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